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should kids get to vote?
aol news ^ | Sept. 17 2003 | Geraldine Sealey

Posted on 09/18/2003 10:43:04 AM PDT by freepatriot32

Sept. 17 -- Americans may be getting used to the Terminator on the ballot. But can they handle his teenage fans in the voting booth?

Laura Finstad says yes. She works, pays taxes, and has been a political activist for years. And she's finally won the right to vote in the United States.

Her big accomplishment? Turning 18 last Saturday.

Finstad fumes about the law that made her wait so long and is campaigning for the voting rights of younger teenagers. The teen is gathering signatures for a petition to lower the voting age in suburban Takoma Park, Md.

"Young people have jobs, pay taxes, go to school to learn about government, and know about the issues," Finstad said. "We think 16 would be a fair age to be able to vote."

Supporters of lowering the voting age from 18, the national legal standard since the 26th Amendment was ratified 32 years ago, think the time for their issue has come. There's movement in several states and municipalities to give younger teens the right to vote.

In Baltimore, Md., 16- and 17-year olds voted in the mayoral primary on Sept. 9. An electoral quirk separated the primary from the general election by 14 months, and anyone who will be 18 during the general election was eligible to vote. Now, a prominent lawmaker wants to permanently extend the privilege to these younger teens.

The Cambridge, Mass., city council recently approved lowering the voting age to 17, and now the state legislature must approve the petition.

A Maine legislative panel in April approved, then reconsidered, extending voting rights to 17-year-olds. Similar legislation is being considered in Texas and California, and has been debated in Minnesota.

Youth voting rights advocates are also campaigning to lower the voting age in Florida, Hawaii, North Dakota, Anchorage, Alaska, and New York City.

Hot Topic Overseas, Too

The debate has caught momentum in Europe, as well, with Great Britain considering a proposal to lower the voting age from 18 to 16.

Globally, though, the most radical proposal to enfranchise youth belongs to Germany, where parliament will consider this fall giving children the vote from infancy, giving new meaning to the social policy "from cradle to grave."

Under the proposal, which would immediately increase the number of potential voters by 13.8 million, parents would vote on behalf of their children until they are 12, when the children could decide whether to allow their parents to vote for them.

A key rallying point for the German proposal is balancing out the political clout of the elderly, a growing demographic there, and boosting the political prowess of families. But U.S. advocates for youth voting rights say they're less interested in countering the power of the elderly than empowering people of all ages.

"The right to vote is essential, no matter who you are," said Alex Koroknay-Palicz, executive director of the Washington, D.C.-based National Youth Rights Association.

Germany's proposal might be extreme, but supporters of youth voting rights here say it's a step in the right direction.

"As people begin to respect young people as individuals, parents will give children the right to cast their own ballot," Koroknay-Palicz said. "If it happens in Germany, it will change the law for the better. Then it will be a matter of changing the mindset and changing the culture."

Not Ready for Democracy?

Typically, youth voting rights supporters in the United States advocate lowering the voting age by a couple of years. They argue that teens often work, and should not be subject to taxation without representation, an American battle cry dating back to Boston Tea Party days.

Also, if teens went to the voting booth at younger ages, they would grow accustomed to casting ballots and more likely become habitual adult voters, advocates argue. Teens' political involvement would also boost the civic interest, and perhaps voter turnout, of their parents, say supporters of youth voting rights.

Critics of a younger voting age, however, say teens are not ready for democracy, and their participation as voters would not improve the electoral process.

"You're dealing with people who don't have any knowledge of or any stake in our democracy," said Curtis Gans, executive director of the Washington-based Committee for the Study of the American Electorate. "If they're lucky, they will have had one civics course before 16, and many won't have that. They're not parents, not homeowners, not raising children, and they're not in any responsible jobs."

Gans argues that younger voters are actually less likely than older citizens to make it to the ballot box on Election Day, so extending the vote to teens younger than 18 would damage already poor voter turnout.

Influence, With or Without the Vote

In Baltimore's mayoral primary last Tuesday, teens did not seem to be much of a factor in voter turnout. Approximately 2,400 16- and 17-year-olds registered to vote. Voter turnout was about 35 percent, matching the turnout for the most recent primary four years ago, the city elections office said.

Still, with 40 million young people between the ages of 12 and 19, teenagers should not be underestimated as a political force, says Sara Jane Boyers, author of 'Teen Power Politics.'

"They're thinking people. They're working, contributing and buying — they're a huge economic force," Boyers said.

Even when young people can't wield voting power, Boyers said, they can influence their parents' votes or use other political tools such as protests. "They want people to pay attention to them," she said.

With young, college-aged voters expected to be a swing vote in the 2004 presidential election, lowering the voting age could get more attention in the coming months. "I think it's going to continue to pick up steam," Koroknay-Palicz said.

"As people realize that young people have power in politics, they're going to key into their interests and desires. Lowering the voting age will come up as part of that."

09-17-03 11:49 EDT


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Maryland
KEYWORDS: adolescent; ageofconsentlaws; children; contracts; culturewar; drinkinglaws; drivinglaws; dumbingdown; get; juvenile; kids; minor; minors; should; to; under18; underage; vote; votingage; votingrights; waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa; worldopinion
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To: freepatriot32
My personal experience is that most 18 year olds arent mature, astute or responsible enough to vote...let alone 16 year olds.

This is just another lefty method to increase their votes.

They cant really win on issue so they have to allow emotionally charged, hormonally motivated children who respond to emotional pleas and have NO CONCEPT what it really means to have to pay for things like rent, mortgage utilities, insurance etc.. Just what parents need their 16 year old kid who is still living under their roof and eating their food and wearing the clothes that they provide voting to raise their taxes to pay for saving the North American Hiccoughing Squirrel or the Muddy River Bottom Sucker Fish from extinction.

The very idea of it is ludicrous I hope ration minds persevere.
41 posted on 09/18/2003 11:52:58 AM PDT by Prysson
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To: freepatriot32
How many actual voters would it create? Not potential voters, but people actually showing up at the polls?

Not enough to matter. It's a non-issue either way.
42 posted on 09/18/2003 12:08:45 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage
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To: freepatriot32
Lowering the voting age is the worst thing that has happened to this country in my lifetime. It's one of those essentially irreversible mistakes, since both the members of the affected age group and the entire benefitting end of the political spectrum (e.g leftists) will fight to the death not to reverse it. 35 would be a good minimum voting age -- old enough to have some sense, but not so old that a majority would be biased toward the AARP "more for us" socialist agenda.
43 posted on 09/18/2003 12:10:14 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: freepatriot32
Minors can't sign contracts, consent to sex, or get tattoos (legally) in many places until they turn 18.

They also get more leniant sentencing in crimes because they are "children".

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

44 posted on 09/18/2003 12:10:43 PM PDT by weegee
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To: So Cal Rocket
Members of the House only have to be 25.

Immigrants can't run for president. Should they not vote either?
45 posted on 09/18/2003 12:14:11 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage
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To: eyespysomething
Post #31: ROTFLMAO!
46 posted on 09/18/2003 12:18:11 PM PDT by Fraulein (TCB)
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To: freepatriot32
INTREP - POLITICS
47 posted on 09/18/2003 12:18:15 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: Calpernia
Baltimer, Md and Cambridge, Mass are also considering this. Expect it to be pushed in the regions of the map that went blue (for Algore Jr.) in 2000.

They were the high population density parts of the country (some of the major cities and mostly on the coasts).

More Dumbcrap voters. This is nothing but a power grab. 17 year olds are not held accountable for their actions.

If the voting age is lowered, lower the age for "juvenile courts", age of consent, driving age, marriage age, drinking age, and the age the parents can kick their kids out of the house.

48 posted on 09/18/2003 12:22:17 PM PDT by weegee
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: So Cal Rocket
"I say raise the voting age to 35. If you're not old enough to run for President, then you shouldn't be voting for one."

As a 28 year old, I think (not that anyone cares what I think, but what are you going to do?) that there should be an IQ test required to vote. If you eliminate the people with room temperature IQ's, the democrats will have to make do with their dead voters.
50 posted on 09/18/2003 12:23:14 PM PDT by exile (Exile - proudly ticking off the Left since 1992)
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To: TheBigB
One of the arguments for lowering the voting age to 18 was that men were elligible for the draft at age 18. Are we going to lower the age to register for selective service?

Got to show some responsibility in order to get voting rights in this country.

At one time, this was the property owners.

These kids say that they "pay taxes". How many of them get their taxes back in the Spring as a refund (taxes paid for a part time job that earns then under $12k a year)? Oh sure they don't get the Social Security dollars back but as the program has been explained, that is not a tax (although candidate Jerry Springer wanted to exempt low income people from paying in and soak the rich for extra SS dollars).

Tell the parents that they won't be able to deduct their voting children as "dependents" anymore either. After all, if they are mature enough to vote, they are mature enough to provide for themselves.

51 posted on 09/18/2003 12:29:04 PM PDT by weegee
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To: seamole
Excellent analysis seamole, thanks! I figured out what WAG stood for before I even got to the bottom of your post. ;)
52 posted on 09/18/2003 12:32:38 PM PDT by TheBigB (I don't believe in Astrology. We Scorpios are skeptical.)
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To: Ramius
Someone should tell the kids how much that tea was taxed that got the colonists upset and then tell them what the tax rate is in America today (and then tell them how high the tax rate has been in America and then tell them how high it is in Europe today).

Those who earn an income and pay taxes will start to question just where it is that their money goes and why some people are saying that the government needs to take in even more.

53 posted on 09/18/2003 12:32:45 PM PDT by weegee
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To: King Prout
Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
54 posted on 09/18/2003 12:33:52 PM PDT by weegee
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Comment #55 Removed by Moderator

To: HoustonCurmudgeon
Good for you on your early participation in the political process.

I personally don't believe an age, any age, should qualify a person to vote.

In the colonial tradition, and that of our fledgling states, we can do better. What is missing from our present day society is not the right to vote, but ongoing participation in government. The lack of participation at the local level is the primary reason the federal has gained control over every aspect of our lives.

The right to vote should be earned by attending at least 25% of local government meetings. These could be the weekly town hall meetings, city hall meetings, or county board of supervisor meetings.

Neither age, nationality, gender, IQ, property ownership, military service, bearing arms, education, business, religious denomination, nor social status bound our forefathers together. PARTICIPATION BOUND THEM!. And not just participation, but participation at the local level. Without local participation a vacuum exists and tyranny fills that void.

Simply voting is not enough to bring, or assure freedom. Voting should be reserved to those that are informed in local government affairs, and participate in such affairs. Even our elected officials in state and federal office should come home for such participation.
56 posted on 09/18/2003 12:34:58 PM PDT by becounted (Earn the right to vote)
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To: King Prout
exactly what is Elmo (?) offering to the sheep to suckle???

Geez, you're right...it is quite obscene.

57 posted on 09/18/2003 12:35:00 PM PDT by Fraulein (TCB)
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To: exile
Every once in awhile, I'm truly amazed at some of the things I read here, and some of the folks calling for an IQ in order to legally vote are some of the ones that just completely dumbfound me.

The hidden premise in this is that the people who suggest this will continue to vote, but the remarkable thing is that it is such a mind-numblingly bad idea--especially to those of us that like our government small and our liberties great--that this is truly irony writ large.

So what you're saying--and correct me if I'm wrong--that you want to give the government the power to subjectively test its citizens for "intelligence," and then let the government grade these tests and then the government will announce who has the "right" to vote. This is your great idea?

No, I can't imagine that there might be any abuses to this process at all. I mean, granted, there are some people in this world--of course not you--that can't logically follow the consequences of an idea to its rational conclusion and really have no business making any decisions at all in their daily lives, except maybe which clothes to wear in the morning.

But, this is the risk we run for protecting our rights from government intrusion. I have to put up with these people that can't intellectually go from point A to point B. In exchange, I get a rock-solid guarantee that I can walk into the booth and pull a lever.
58 posted on 09/18/2003 12:35:47 PM PDT by Viva Le Dissention
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Comment #59 Removed by Moderator

To: goodseedhomeschool (returned); Kuksool
If the voting age is lowered, the NEA will gladly educate the children on who to vote for.

Having seen teachers require their students to write angry letters to conservative politicians, I have no doubt that they would indoctrinate the kids to pull a straight Democrat ticket.

"Don't even read the names, just click that "D" at the top, it doesn't have legs like an "R" and make sure that you don't waste your vote selecting any Greens...."

60 posted on 09/18/2003 12:37:45 PM PDT by weegee
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