H-1B hearing: Companies say foreign workers needed

InfoWorld ^ | Sept. 17, 2003 | Grant Gross, IDG News Service

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H-1B hearing: Companies say foreign workers needed
Visas for foreign IT workers will drop by two-thirds for 2004 unless Congress acts
 

 

By Grant Gross, IDG News Service

September 17, 2003

 

WASHINGTON -- The yearly number of foreign visas for IT workers and professionals coming into the U.S. will drop by two-thirds for 2004 unless the U.S. Congress acts, and an immigration lawyer group came to Congress Tuesday asking that the cap on H-1B visas not be allowed to slide back to pre-dot-com boom levels.

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Representatives of Intel Corp. and Ingersoll-Rand Corp. also argued that H-1B visas are needed to fill technical positions where they can't find qualified U.S. candidates, but one panelist told the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee that the visa program is taking money from the pockets of U.S. workers.

"The unemployment rate of electrical and electronic engineers has reached an all-time high," said John Steadman, president-elect of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers-USA. "This translates to hundreds of thousands of unemployed U.S. engineers. These are people who are degreed and capable U.S. engineers." Unemployment among electrical and electronic engineers reached 7 percent in early 2003, Steadman said.

The annual H-1B cap went from 65,000 in the U.S. government's fiscal year 1998 to 115,000 visas granted a year in 1999 and 2000, then up to 195,000 in 2001 and 2002. The capped H-1B numbers don't include some workers, such as those employed at universities and some research organizations, but the caps do affect how many IT workers U.S. companies can bring into the country. The American Electronics Association noted, however, that the IT industry's reliance on H-1B visas was falling, from 65 percent of the capped number in 2001 to 34 percent in 2002.

The number of H-1B visas, used by companies to bring IT workers from India, China and other countries to the U.S., would go back to a pre-1999 cap of 65,000 if Congress fails to act by Oct. 1. Stephen Yale-Loehr, the business immigration chairman of the American Immigration Lawyers Association, asked the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee to allow 115,000 H-1B visas for the U.S. government's 2004 fiscal year. The H-1B visa program, popular with technology companies, also allows other U.S. businesses to recruit hard-to-find professionals such as accountants, lawyers and doctors.

Backers of the H-1B program argued Tuesday that the visas aren't taking away U.S. jobs, because some technology companies still can't find qualified workers for some positions. Ingersoll-Rand has searched for more than a year to fill a plastics engineer and an industrial robotics engineer position, finally settling on a Canadian resident in both cases, said Elizabeth Dickson, advisor of immigration services for the industrial equipment manufacturer.

"It is hard to displace U.S. workers when you don't have any U.S. workers to choose from," Dickson said.

Intel attempts to find U.S. workers before bringing in a foreign worker with an H-1B visa, said Patrick Duffy, human resources attorney for Intel, but more than half of the graduate students in physical science programs at U.S. universities are from outside the country. About 5 percent of Intel's U.S. workforce are H-1B workers, Duffy said, and many of them eventually become permanent U.S. citizens.

"This small percentage is comprised of individuals possessing unique and difficult-to-find skills which can only be acquired through advanced, university-level education," Duffy added.

The U.S. technology industry will be in danger of falling behind other countries unless the country can continue to attract "the best and brightest" workers from around the world, Dickson said, "We are looking for a reasonable, market-driven H-1B policy," she added.

The debate between Steadman and the three other witnesses translated into conflicts on the Senate committee, with senators sometimes even expressing conflict within themselves. "We don't want to be a country that turns down Einstein, but we also don't want to be in a situation where we flood the market," said Senator Jeff Sessions, an Alabama Republican.

Steadman and Senator Diane Feinstein, a California Democrat, pointed to abuses of H-1B visas and of a related program, the L-1, which allows companies to transfer employees from outside the U.S. to fill high-level positions. Some companies have used the L-1 visas to import IT workers who are then hired out to other companies, Steadman charged, and Feinstein questioned whether some companies employing H-1B workers were paying the prevailing wage as required. Numerous workers in California have complained to Feinstein that they've been replaced by foreign workers paid a third of their salary, she said.

"My view is (the H-1B cap) should go back unless we are able to produce some stronger safeguards," Feinstein added. "I'm elected to represent people from California, who are losing their jobs big time."

Senator Saxby Chambliss, a Georgia Republican, said he plans to introduce legislation this week to close loopholes in the L-1 visa program.

Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, noted that the sunset of his legislation to expand the H-1B cap to 195,000 will also result in the loss of a $1,000 fee per H-1B application, which has been used for training and scholarship programs in the U.S. Since 1998, when the cap was expanded from 65,000 to 115,000, more than $692 million has been raised by the H-1B fee, providing training for 55,000 U.S. workers and scholarships for 12,500 students in science and engineering.

Hatch said the Senate should not tolerate fraud and abuse in the H-1B program, but he questioned whether it alone was causing the U.S. unemployment problems. He questioned whether the facts supported accusations that companies are using the H-1B visa program to hire cheap labor. The average H-1B worker salary is $55,000, while the average salary of a U.S. worker with a bachelor's degree is $46,000, Hatch said.

But Steadman said Hatch wasn't comparing similar numbers. Engineers typically earn a much higher salary than most other professions requiring bachelor's degrees, he said, and the presence of foreign workers is depressing wages.

Yale-Loehr also noted that 22,000 H-1B applications are pending from last year, and close to 7,000 visa spots were set aside for Chile and Singapore in recent U.S. free trade agreements with those countries. If Congress doesn't raise the 65,000 cap, only about 36,000 new H-1B visas will be available in 2004, he said.

But Steadman urged Congress to look for a longer-term solution to the lack of qualified engineers and IT workers than raising the H-1B cap again. He encouraged Congress to invest more money in programs that encourage U.S. students to study engineering and science. He also asked Congress to strengthen the U.S. Department of Labor's ability to investigate H-1B abuses, as is required in the U.S. Jobs Protection Act, introduced in Congress in July.

Steadman also suggested the H-1B visa program contributes to companies outsourcing jobs and moving them outside the U.S. Some companies use the H-1B workers' contacts in their home countries to set up outsourcing deals, he said.

"These are difficult times for IT and electrical engineering professionals in the U.S.," said Steadman, an engineering professor from Alabama. "But there is a lot more at risk here than jobs for our members. If we continue down this path, the end result is the United States will make itself increasingly dependent on foreign technical expertise, both here and abroad."

 

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[banjo joe]

finally settling on a Canadian resident in both cases, said Elizabeth Dickson, advisor of immigration services for the industrial equipment

They found one guy for both jobs! Canadians are smart and capable!

[A. Pole]

But Steadman urged Congress to look for a longer-term solution to the lack of qualified engineers and IT workers than raising the H-1B cap again. He encouraged Congress to invest more money in programs that encourage U.S. students to study engineering and science.

H-1B visas and outsourcing are the MOST EFFICIENT method to DISCOURAGE U.S. students to study engineering and science. They would have to be UTTER FOOLS to invest time and money unless "free" trade policies are curtailed.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Representatives of Intel Corp. and Ingersoll-Rand Corp....argued that H-1B visas are needed to fill technical positions where they can't find qualified U.S. candidates...

What an out-and-out, bald faced lie.

The only way this could be true is if they weren't looking for qualified U.S. candidates.

[banjo joe]

Worse, these corporations are training their future competition

All that matters is this quarter's numbers.

[adx]

Brain-dead Human Resources managers don't get it.

You got that right. I'm an EE trying to get a start, and I run into this all the time. They must assume you're too stupid to pick up a new software package that's used in your profession. Even more frustrating is if you know one package, and they want somebody that knows another package that does the same thing (schematic capture programs come to mind), but the HR bubble-head chycks don't know that.

[1rudeboy]

The list of the 6 interviewers I'm to see today has one "American" name on it . . . .

What does an "American" name look like? Be sure to come back and let us know whether your prejudices were satisfied.

[A. Pole]

We'll help with the ebiz stuff. You play golf.

"We leverage onsite, offsite and/or offshore expertise to turn your business vision into practical reality." A "need" to play more golf is a good reason?

[adx]

H-1B visas and outsourcing are the MOST EFFICIENT method to DISCOURAGE U.S. students to study engineering and science.

Yup. So far in my job search, the only calls I've received from recruiters came about because I'm a US citizen, and the work required a security clearance or being able to get one. I wouldn't be surprised that by the end of the decade the only place you'll find US citizens in engineering is in the defense industry, although I don't doubt that somebody's working on a way to get rid of that security clearance requirement.

[1rudeboy]

H-1B visas and outsourcing are the MOST EFFICIENT method to DISCOURAGE U.S. students to study engineering and science. They would have to be UTTER FOOLS to invest time and money unless "free" trade policies are curtailed.

So, imposing tariffs on foreign-manufactured products will cause more U.S. students to study engineering and science?

[dfwgator]

It's even worse, if they are looking for someone with Doohickey version 6.0 experience, they won't bother with someone who has extensive experience with Doohickey 5.0.

[SauronOfMordor]

Worse, these corporations are training their future competition. The workers take their money and set up shop at home. Between that and the number of immigrants our tax-supported universities have turned into future professors, America has effectively produced and financed the infrastructure for effective foreign competition at the expense of its own citizens.

The average tenure of a Fortune 500 CEO is about 4-5 years, before moving on. The CEO does not care what happens after he's cashed in his stock options and either retired or moved on to another company.

Like Neville Chamberlain who promised "Peace in our time" in 1939, these CEOs are promising their Boards "profits in our time", and planning on bailing out before the crash

[A. Pole]

Commence an audit of H1-B hires. Select a representative sample of companies, and scour their HR records.

Are you suspecting them of commiting a criminal perjury?

[Mr. Bird]

It would be worse than that. But it seems it's the only way to find out.

[Carry_Okie]

The average tenure of a Fortune 500 CEO is about 4-5 years, before moving on. The CEO does not care what happens after he's cashed in his stock options and either retired or moved on to another company.

That was understood. Worse, they'll have the cash to invest in that foreign competition while shorting their former company!

[adx]

It's even worse, if they are looking for someone with Doohickey version 6.0 experience, they won't bother with someone who has extensive experience with Doohickey 5.0.

Heh, yeah. OrCAD is one example. I did schematic capture with 7.2 at school, and the current version is 9.2. Given how slow universities are at getting new software, how can you possibly hope to get experience with the current stuff? And don't even get me started about the glacial pace that universities have when it comes to updating their curriculum.

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

This is so true. HR only knows how to word match and with so many unemployed they can sift through the piles of resumes until they find this match. All along they had dozens of far more qualified applicants, but failed to understand that.

[A. Pole]

Thousands of American high-tech have been forced (with threats of losing their severance pay) to train their Indian replacements before being fired.

If American workers lack the needed skills this is only proper that they train their replacements. Makes perfect sense.

[dfwgator]

And hiring managers are too scared to hire people that they know can run rings around them technically, it will expose them for the frauds they really are.

[SauronOfMordor]

This situation is caused by the fact that these companies hiring want an exact match in qualifications, even though most engineers can come up to speed on just about any system or software package in a matter of weeks, if not days (I am an engineer with 16 years experience). Brain-dead Human Resources managers don't get it.

You are assuming stupidity, rather than a deliberate effort to disqualify all applicants other than the (H1B) applicant they really want to hire, and whose resume they used to write the qualifications for the fake "ad"

[A. Pole]

H-1B visas and outsourcing are the MOST EFFICIENT method to DISCOURAGE U.S. students to study engineering and science. They would have to be UTTER FOOLS to invest time and money unless "free" trade policies are curtailed.

So, imposing tariffs on foreign-manufactured products will cause more U.S. students to study engineering and science?

Bingo! You got it! Of cource it has to be comprehensive, not just the tarrifs on goods or services, but also prosecuting the H1-B fraud, tax breaks for hiring Americans, prosecuting outsourcing of sensitive technology and of personal data transfer. Etc, etc ...

I would also include the protection that in case of shortage of technical jobs the college debt can be cancelled. Wall-Mart employee will never be able to free himself from such debt. Lower the tremendous risk of technical study!