H-1B hearing: Companies say foreign workers needed

InfoWorld ^ | Sept. 17, 2003 | Grant Gross, IDG News Service

[old-ager]

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H-1B hearing: Companies say foreign workers needed
Visas for foreign IT workers will drop by two-thirds for 2004 unless Congress acts
 

 

By Grant Gross, IDG News Service

September 17, 2003

 

WASHINGTON -- The yearly number of foreign visas for IT workers and professionals coming into the U.S. will drop by two-thirds for 2004 unless the U.S. Congress acts, and an immigration lawyer group came to Congress Tuesday asking that the cap on H-1B visas not be allowed to slide back to pre-dot-com boom levels.

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Representatives of Intel Corp. and Ingersoll-Rand Corp. also argued that H-1B visas are needed to fill technical positions where they can't find qualified U.S. candidates, but one panelist told the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee that the visa program is taking money from the pockets of U.S. workers.

"The unemployment rate of electrical and electronic engineers has reached an all-time high," said John Steadman, president-elect of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers-USA. "This translates to hundreds of thousands of unemployed U.S. engineers. These are people who are degreed and capable U.S. engineers." Unemployment among electrical and electronic engineers reached 7 percent in early 2003, Steadman said.

The annual H-1B cap went from 65,000 in the U.S. government's fiscal year 1998 to 115,000 visas granted a year in 1999 and 2000, then up to 195,000 in 2001 and 2002. The capped H-1B numbers don't include some workers, such as those employed at universities and some research organizations, but the caps do affect how many IT workers U.S. companies can bring into the country. The American Electronics Association noted, however, that the IT industry's reliance on H-1B visas was falling, from 65 percent of the capped number in 2001 to 34 percent in 2002.

The number of H-1B visas, used by companies to bring IT workers from India, China and other countries to the U.S., would go back to a pre-1999 cap of 65,000 if Congress fails to act by Oct. 1. Stephen Yale-Loehr, the business immigration chairman of the American Immigration Lawyers Association, asked the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee to allow 115,000 H-1B visas for the U.S. government's 2004 fiscal year. The H-1B visa program, popular with technology companies, also allows other U.S. businesses to recruit hard-to-find professionals such as accountants, lawyers and doctors.

Backers of the H-1B program argued Tuesday that the visas aren't taking away U.S. jobs, because some technology companies still can't find qualified workers for some positions. Ingersoll-Rand has searched for more than a year to fill a plastics engineer and an industrial robotics engineer position, finally settling on a Canadian resident in both cases, said Elizabeth Dickson, advisor of immigration services for the industrial equipment manufacturer.

"It is hard to displace U.S. workers when you don't have any U.S. workers to choose from," Dickson said.

Intel attempts to find U.S. workers before bringing in a foreign worker with an H-1B visa, said Patrick Duffy, human resources attorney for Intel, but more than half of the graduate students in physical science programs at U.S. universities are from outside the country. About 5 percent of Intel's U.S. workforce are H-1B workers, Duffy said, and many of them eventually become permanent U.S. citizens.

"This small percentage is comprised of individuals possessing unique and difficult-to-find skills which can only be acquired through advanced, university-level education," Duffy added.

The U.S. technology industry will be in danger of falling behind other countries unless the country can continue to attract "the best and brightest" workers from around the world, Dickson said, "We are looking for a reasonable, market-driven H-1B policy," she added.

The debate between Steadman and the three other witnesses translated into conflicts on the Senate committee, with senators sometimes even expressing conflict within themselves. "We don't want to be a country that turns down Einstein, but we also don't want to be in a situation where we flood the market," said Senator Jeff Sessions, an Alabama Republican.

Steadman and Senator Diane Feinstein, a California Democrat, pointed to abuses of H-1B visas and of a related program, the L-1, which allows companies to transfer employees from outside the U.S. to fill high-level positions. Some companies have used the L-1 visas to import IT workers who are then hired out to other companies, Steadman charged, and Feinstein questioned whether some companies employing H-1B workers were paying the prevailing wage as required. Numerous workers in California have complained to Feinstein that they've been replaced by foreign workers paid a third of their salary, she said.

"My view is (the H-1B cap) should go back unless we are able to produce some stronger safeguards," Feinstein added. "I'm elected to represent people from California, who are losing their jobs big time."

Senator Saxby Chambliss, a Georgia Republican, said he plans to introduce legislation this week to close loopholes in the L-1 visa program.

Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, noted that the sunset of his legislation to expand the H-1B cap to 195,000 will also result in the loss of a $1,000 fee per H-1B application, which has been used for training and scholarship programs in the U.S. Since 1998, when the cap was expanded from 65,000 to 115,000, more than $692 million has been raised by the H-1B fee, providing training for 55,000 U.S. workers and scholarships for 12,500 students in science and engineering.

Hatch said the Senate should not tolerate fraud and abuse in the H-1B program, but he questioned whether it alone was causing the U.S. unemployment problems. He questioned whether the facts supported accusations that companies are using the H-1B visa program to hire cheap labor. The average H-1B worker salary is $55,000, while the average salary of a U.S. worker with a bachelor's degree is $46,000, Hatch said.

But Steadman said Hatch wasn't comparing similar numbers. Engineers typically earn a much higher salary than most other professions requiring bachelor's degrees, he said, and the presence of foreign workers is depressing wages.

Yale-Loehr also noted that 22,000 H-1B applications are pending from last year, and close to 7,000 visa spots were set aside for Chile and Singapore in recent U.S. free trade agreements with those countries. If Congress doesn't raise the 65,000 cap, only about 36,000 new H-1B visas will be available in 2004, he said.

But Steadman urged Congress to look for a longer-term solution to the lack of qualified engineers and IT workers than raising the H-1B cap again. He encouraged Congress to invest more money in programs that encourage U.S. students to study engineering and science. He also asked Congress to strengthen the U.S. Department of Labor's ability to investigate H-1B abuses, as is required in the U.S. Jobs Protection Act, introduced in Congress in July.

Steadman also suggested the H-1B visa program contributes to companies outsourcing jobs and moving them outside the U.S. Some companies use the H-1B workers' contacts in their home countries to set up outsourcing deals, he said.

"These are difficult times for IT and electrical engineering professionals in the U.S.," said Steadman, an engineering professor from Alabama. "But there is a lot more at risk here than jobs for our members. If we continue down this path, the end result is the United States will make itself increasingly dependent on foreign technical expertise, both here and abroad."

 

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[old-ager]

> That is such bull.

I should have warned you all that Texas_Dawg would jump in for a little trolling (flame-baiting; making outrageous open-borders BS comments just for attention).

[dfwgator]

It's terrible, I was talking with some bubble-headed bleach blonde HR person the other day, and she was totally clueless about technology. She had no idea about what Oracle or even what the term GUI meant.

[dfwgator]

It's terrible, I was talking with some bubble-headed bleach blonde HR person the other day, and she was totally clueless about technology. She had no idea about what Oracle or even what the term GUI meant.

[drypowder]

Backers of the H-1B program argued Tuesday that the visas aren't taking away U.S. jobs

The corporate ploy is to keep salary levels low and under control, thus effectively eliminating the middle class American. Duh, that's the whole idea behind all immigration, legal or otherwise.

[Orbiting_Rosie's_Head]

Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, noted that the sunset of his legislation to expand the H-1B cap to 195,000 will also result in the loss of a $1,000 fee per H-1B application, which has been used for training and scholarship programs

Ahhhh, now we see. It's all about $$$ flowing to the Beast. That, and the fact that comapnies love H1-B and L-1 because it provides indentured servitude labor. Visa holders are required to stay put at their employer, or face loss of their visa and deportation. Americans who are looking for work aren't attractive because if the high-tech slot requires training in a new (and lucrative) technology, the worker if free (as in FREE MARKET) to move on to a higher salary. Forcing foreign workers to stay put removes the free market burden of having to pay the going rate. But according to Dawg and others, THIS kind of government elimination of free market rules is perfectly acceptible.

One more point about the above quote: What good are visa application funded scholarships and training for US workers if all the jobs are filled by foreign visa holders? Duuhhhh

[Orbiting_Rosie's_Head]

if free = is free

[Semper Paratus]

training and scholarship programs

Looks like McDonalds University is going to expand.

[Orbiting_Rosie's_Head]

Greetings! Welcome to Wal-Mart!

[Orbiting_Rosie's_Head]

It's terrible, I was talking with some bubble-headed bleach blonde HR person the other day, and she was totally clueless about technology. She had no idea about what Oracle or even what the term GUI meant.

Believe me, I've seen that ugliness up close. I once had a gum-chewing temp agent tell me I was wrong for a programming contract because I didn't "look right". I eventually found out she thought I was over-dressed because I wore a tie to her office, and the company she was hiring for was too "laid-back" for someone who wears a tie.

[clamper1797]

I have an interview with Agilent Technologies at 1:00 PM today. This marks the first interview that I have had since I was laid off 5 weeks ago. The list of the 6 interviewers I'm to see today has one "American" name on it ... the lady from HR. I feel in my heart that they will ask material that someone in my particular disipline would have little recent experience in it. It would akin to asking a pediatrician about the intricasies of cardiology. Granted they are both doctors but the baby doctor is not going to have a cardiologists intimate knowledge about heart surgery.

Companies use this ploy to satisfy the government (and the laws) mandate that they "attempt" to hire an American engineer before hiring an H1B. They raise the bar so high in the interview that no one could pass. They could save everyone a lot of time if they would simple state in the job description that "American engineers need not apply"

But just in case this interview will be different than most I had been to last time I was looking for a job (Jan 2002-Sept 2002) I hit the books hard .. and studied, reviewed and crammed every bit of data I could into my head ... we shall see

[riri]

Companies use this ploy to satisfy the government (and the laws) mandate that they "attempt"

They sure do. My family and I once took an overseas assignment. In order to send an American they had to first advertise for the position within that country. Ofcourse, they asked for a whole lotta stuff they could be sure no applicant would have.

[old-ager]

> They raise the bar so high

"Raise ... High" are the wrong words. "Set ... arbitrarily" are the right words. I can think of two reasons for this: 1. HR and similar folks, not knowing technology (why aren't they in Indian callcenters ...) can only work off of exact matches to exact words in requirements -- they can exercise very little judgement; 2. the deliberate exclusion of higher paid people. Both are happening. The thing that gives the lie to this is that even the Indian and other consultants are being primarily used for _whatever is needed_ in the business, not their buzzword-lists. And long time local American consultants have a lot to lose if they pad their resumes with the needed buzzwords, where somebody taking a shot at coming to or staying in our fine country has not got much to lose by padding.
The bottom line is that we had immigration rules and laws for a reason; a fake IT crisis was manufactured because mgmt resented not understanding technical things; and we bent and broke our own immigration laws so that management could have drone-like employees with no expectation of decent treatment.
The biggest problem with all of this is not that we have to work for lower bucks, but how it is warping our society. Our society's expectations were set by Christian standards. Hinduism and Islam set no such standards.
There you go.

[monkeywrench]

" The H-1B visa program, popular with technology companies, also allows other U.S. businesses to recruit hard-to-find professionals such as accountants, lawyers and doctors."

Accountants, lawyers, and Doctors, too?

[old-ager]

> It is obvious that American corporations are looking to hold down salaries by having a surplus of skilled workers.

Exactly. Can't blame them for trying.

> This country cannot sustain itself by depending on foreign countries to supply them with the skilled employees they need.

There you are. You CAN blame somebody for this. Bending, making exceptions to, and breaking our immigration laws is not the way to increase the labor supply. The original assertion that workers can't be found is a classic lie that totally and deliberately ignores economics. The correct statement is that they cannot find Americans willing to do what they want in exchange for what the company wants to give; in other words they claim they cannot make a market with Americans.

[jjm2111]

Welcome to FR!

[jjm2111]

Section 1706 hurt my Dad's business. I hate when pols dick with middle class people to enrich their already rich friends.

[A. Pole]

Backers of the H-1B program argued Tuesday that the visas aren't taking away U.S. jobs, because some technology companies still can't find qualified workers for some positions. Ingersoll-Rand has searched for more than a year to fill a plastics engineer and an industrial robotics engineer position, finally settling on a Canadian resident in both cases, said Elizabeth Dickson, advisor of immigration services for the industrial equipment manufacturer.

Typical non sequitur. Elizabeth Dickson, who is she?

[A. Pole]

Backers of the H-1B program argued Tuesday that the visas aren't taking away U.S. jobs, because some technology companies still can't find qualified workers for some positions. Ingersoll-Rand has searched for more than a year to fill a plastics engineer and an industrial robotics engineer position, finally settling on a Canadian resident in both cases, said Elizabeth Dickson, advisor of immigration services for the industrial equipment manufacturer.

Typical non sequitur. Elizabeth Dickson, who is she?