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H-1B hearing: Companies say foreign workers needed
InfoWorld ^ | Sept. 17, 2003 | Grant Gross, IDG News Service

Posted on 09/18/2003 6:18:22 AM PDT by old-ager

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H-1B hearing: Companies say foreign workers needed
Visas for foreign IT workers will drop by two-thirds for 2004 unless Congress acts
 

 
By Grant Gross, IDG News Service September 17, 2003  
 
 

WASHINGTON -- The yearly number of foreign visas for IT workers and professionals coming into the U.S. will drop by two-thirds for 2004 unless the U.S. Congress acts, and an immigration lawyer group came to Congress Tuesday asking that the cap on H-1B visas not be allowed to slide back to pre-dot-com boom levels.

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Representatives of Intel Corp. and Ingersoll-Rand Corp. also argued that H-1B visas are needed to fill technical positions where they can't find qualified U.S. candidates, but one panelist told the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee that the visa program is taking money from the pockets of U.S. workers.

"The unemployment rate of electrical and electronic engineers has reached an all-time high," said John Steadman, president-elect of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers-USA. "This translates to hundreds of thousands of unemployed U.S. engineers. These are people who are degreed and capable U.S. engineers." Unemployment among electrical and electronic engineers reached 7 percent in early 2003, Steadman said.

The annual H-1B cap went from 65,000 in the U.S. government's fiscal year 1998 to 115,000 visas granted a year in 1999 and 2000, then up to 195,000 in 2001 and 2002. The capped H-1B numbers don't include some workers, such as those employed at universities and some research organizations, but the caps do affect how many IT workers U.S. companies can bring into the country. The American Electronics Association noted, however, that the IT industry's reliance on H-1B visas was falling, from 65 percent of the capped number in 2001 to 34 percent in 2002.

The number of H-1B visas, used by companies to bring IT workers from India, China and other countries to the U.S., would go back to a pre-1999 cap of 65,000 if Congress fails to act by Oct. 1. Stephen Yale-Loehr, the business immigration chairman of the American Immigration Lawyers Association, asked the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee to allow 115,000 H-1B visas for the U.S. government's 2004 fiscal year. The H-1B visa program, popular with technology companies, also allows other U.S. businesses to recruit hard-to-find professionals such as accountants, lawyers and doctors.

Backers of the H-1B program argued Tuesday that the visas aren't taking away U.S. jobs, because some technology companies still can't find qualified workers for some positions. Ingersoll-Rand has searched for more than a year to fill a plastics engineer and an industrial robotics engineer position, finally settling on a Canadian resident in both cases, said Elizabeth Dickson, advisor of immigration services for the industrial equipment manufacturer.

"It is hard to displace U.S. workers when you don't have any U.S. workers to choose from," Dickson said.

Intel attempts to find U.S. workers before bringing in a foreign worker with an H-1B visa, said Patrick Duffy, human resources attorney for Intel, but more than half of the graduate students in physical science programs at U.S. universities are from outside the country. About 5 percent of Intel's U.S. workforce are H-1B workers, Duffy said, and many of them eventually become permanent U.S. citizens.

"This small percentage is comprised of individuals possessing unique and difficult-to-find skills which can only be acquired through advanced, university-level education," Duffy added.

The U.S. technology industry will be in danger of falling behind other countries unless the country can continue to attract "the best and brightest" workers from around the world, Dickson said, "We are looking for a reasonable, market-driven H-1B policy," she added.

The debate between Steadman and the three other witnesses translated into conflicts on the Senate committee, with senators sometimes even expressing conflict within themselves. "We don't want to be a country that turns down Einstein, but we also don't want to be in a situation where we flood the market," said Senator Jeff Sessions, an Alabama Republican.

Steadman and Senator Diane Feinstein, a California Democrat, pointed to abuses of H-1B visas and of a related program, the L-1, which allows companies to transfer employees from outside the U.S. to fill high-level positions. Some companies have used the L-1 visas to import IT workers who are then hired out to other companies, Steadman charged, and Feinstein questioned whether some companies employing H-1B workers were paying the prevailing wage as required. Numerous workers in California have complained to Feinstein that they've been replaced by foreign workers paid a third of their salary, she said.

"My view is (the H-1B cap) should go back unless we are able to produce some stronger safeguards," Feinstein added. "I'm elected to represent people from California, who are losing their jobs big time."

Senator Saxby Chambliss, a Georgia Republican, said he plans to introduce legislation this week to close loopholes in the L-1 visa program.

Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, noted that the sunset of his legislation to expand the H-1B cap to 195,000 will also result in the loss of a $1,000 fee per H-1B application, which has been used for training and scholarship programs in the U.S. Since 1998, when the cap was expanded from 65,000 to 115,000, more than $692 million has been raised by the H-1B fee, providing training for 55,000 U.S. workers and scholarships for 12,500 students in science and engineering.

Hatch said the Senate should not tolerate fraud and abuse in the H-1B program, but he questioned whether it alone was causing the U.S. unemployment problems. He questioned whether the facts supported accusations that companies are using the H-1B visa program to hire cheap labor. The average H-1B worker salary is $55,000, while the average salary of a U.S. worker with a bachelor's degree is $46,000, Hatch said.

But Steadman said Hatch wasn't comparing similar numbers. Engineers typically earn a much higher salary than most other professions requiring bachelor's degrees, he said, and the presence of foreign workers is depressing wages.

Yale-Loehr also noted that 22,000 H-1B applications are pending from last year, and close to 7,000 visa spots were set aside for Chile and Singapore in recent U.S. free trade agreements with those countries. If Congress doesn't raise the 65,000 cap, only about 36,000 new H-1B visas will be available in 2004, he said.

But Steadman urged Congress to look for a longer-term solution to the lack of qualified engineers and IT workers than raising the H-1B cap again. He encouraged Congress to invest more money in programs that encourage U.S. students to study engineering and science. He also asked Congress to strengthen the U.S. Department of Labor's ability to investigate H-1B abuses, as is required in the U.S. Jobs Protection Act, introduced in Congress in July.

Steadman also suggested the H-1B visa program contributes to companies outsourcing jobs and moving them outside the U.S. Some companies use the H-1B workers' contacts in their home countries to set up outsourcing deals, he said.

"These are difficult times for IT and electrical engineering professionals in the U.S.," said Steadman, an engineering professor from Alabama. "But there is a lot more at risk here than jobs for our members. If we continue down this path, the end result is the United States will make itself increasingly dependent on foreign technical expertise, both here and abroad."



 

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KEYWORDS: h1b
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1 posted on 09/18/2003 6:18:22 AM PDT by old-ager
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To: old-ager
Can't get any judges confirmend but watch the H-1b renewal fly through.
2 posted on 09/18/2003 6:20:04 AM PDT by Semper Paratus
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To: old-ager; clamper1797; sarcasm; BrooklynGOP; A. Pole; Zorrito; GiovannaNicoletta; Caipirabob; ...
Lets see now we have large scale high tech unemployment among engineers and the other professionals that these companies are seeking H1B slaves for. They are lying and it is an obvious lie.

Ping on or off let me know.
3 posted on 09/18/2003 6:24:20 AM PDT by harpseal (stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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Hatch said the Senate should not tolerate fraud and abuse in the H-1B program, but he questioned whether it alone was causing the U.S. unemployment problems. He questioned whether the facts supported accusations that companies are using the H-1B visa program to hire cheap labor. The average H-1B worker salary is $55,000, while the average salary of a U.S. worker with a bachelor's degree is $46,000, Hatch said.
4 posted on 09/18/2003 6:25:54 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg (I'm still taking bets on Bush in 2004 for anyone who thinks he will lose. Name your amount.)
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To: Semper Paratus
No kidding. My blood boils when I see crap like this happening. I'd like to see what the job requirements are for some of the jobs they just can't seem to "fill". Must have 3 PhDs, and 15 years experience, blah blah blah. I work for a company that is going the offshore route for many of the supposed "low level" programming jobs. Although I am not a programmer, whats to say several years down the line they decide to ship my job to Pakistan? Remember, when they came for the programmers, I didn't care because I wasn't a programmer. When they came for the...you get the picture.
5 posted on 09/18/2003 6:28:14 AM PDT by landorepub
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To: old-ager
The H1-B workers need to pay an infrastructure tax - for using the roads (and other things) that my taxes built.
6 posted on 09/18/2003 6:29:40 AM PDT by Jack Wilson
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To: old-ager
BTTT

read later...
7 posted on 09/18/2003 6:30:05 AM PDT by EdReform (Support Free Republic - Become a Monthly Donor)
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To: old-ager
"Backers of the H-1B program argued Tuesday that the visas aren't taking away U.S. jobs, because some technology companies still can't find qualified workers for some positions. Ingersoll-Rand has searched for more than a year to fill a plastics engineer and an industrial robotics engineer position, finally settling on a Canadian resident in both cases, said Elizabeth Dickson, advisor of immigration services for the industrial equipment manufacturer."

That is such bull.

8 posted on 09/18/2003 6:30:35 AM PDT by jjm2111 (Wear earthy colors.)
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To: Jack Wilson
There should not be an H1-B worker period. If people wish to work in the USA let them become legal immigrants to the USA not guest workers who can not leave one employer for another without the consent of the first employer.
9 posted on 09/18/2003 6:31:40 AM PDT by harpseal (stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: landorepub
Correct! There's always an excuse from "Patriotic"Companies to sell out American workers!!!
10 posted on 09/18/2003 6:32:23 AM PDT by von Lettow
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To: Texas_Dawg
The average H-1B worker salary is $55,000, while the average salary of a U.S. worker with a bachelor's degree is $46,000, Hatch said.

Apples and oranges, Troll_Dawg. One figure is $55,000 for an H1-B. H1-B's typically work in high-tech. The average salary for a US high-tech worker with a bachelor's is $68,000 (Source: ComputerWorld, 2003). The figure you and Orinthal James Hatch presented was the average salary of a U.S. worker in any field with a bachelor's degree is $46,000.

Thusly, every H1-B saves american business on average, $13,000 -- at the expense of qualified American workers. This is direct government intervention that you so loudly proclaim you are against.

I know it is imperative to you to try to destroy as many US jobs as possible, but I won't let you get away with your lies.

Besides, someone with a college education would know to look out for such a transparant manipulation of the origins in the statistics. I did. You didn't.

11 posted on 09/18/2003 6:37:32 AM PDT by Lazamataz (I am the extended middle finger in the fist of life.)
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To: von Lettow
It's a RACKET! If engineers had powerful lobbyists to bribe a few congressmen MORE than these corporations are, they would prevail. OR, we could expose this corruption to the voters, so they can rid Congress of this filth.
Phyllis Schlafly, a noted Christian Conservative has written at length on this racket.
12 posted on 09/18/2003 6:50:35 AM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: harpseal
Lets see now we have large scale high tech unemployment among engineers and the other professionals that these companies are seeking H1B slaves for. They are lying and it is an obvious lie.

Worse, these corporations are training their future competition. The workers take their money and set up shop at home. Between that and the number of immigrants our tax-supported universities have turned into future professors, America has effectively produced and financed the infrastructure for effective foreign competition at the expense of its own citizens.

14 posted on 09/18/2003 7:09:24 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (A faith in Justice, none in "fairness")
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: old-ager
I can't believe it. I'm actually agreeing with Fineswine! Must be an error in the article or else I'm not feeling well.
16 posted on 09/18/2003 7:17:58 AM PDT by JosephW
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To: old-ager
How about this? Commence an audit of H1-B hires. Select a representative sample of companies, and scour their HR records. If H1-B is being abused, this should reveal it. If it's not, it won't put an end to these threads, but it will help...
17 posted on 09/18/2003 7:20:39 AM PDT by Mr. Bird
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To: Mr. Bird
Thousands of American high-tech have been forced (with threats of losing their severance pay) to train their Indian replacements before being fired.
The abuses are OBVIOUS and have been reported by many news sources, but the unemployed do not have the money and power that their employers have to bribe Congress. Congress is doing nothing about illegals either because too many businesses are profiting. Despite the fact that a large majority of Americans want the borders protected.
Phyllis Schlafly, a Christian Conservative writes here:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/phyllisschlafly/ps20030602.shtml
[ Follow the money. The big corporations hire Indians and Chinese for less than half what they pay their U.S. employees, work them long hours without overtime pay and treat them like indentured servants unable to quit for a better job. The corporations partner with the U.S. government by making political contributions to assure the passage of legislation that legalizes the importation of cheap foreign labor.
This racket started when Section 1706 was slipped into the Tax Reform Act of 1986. This uniquely discriminatory section required anyone who is an "engineer, designer, computer programmer, systems analyst or other similarly skilled worker" to be classified by the Internal Revenue Service as an employee rather than as an independent contractor, which hundreds of thousands of tech workers were at that time. ]

Hatch has introduced a bill to allow foreign-born to become President. Hatch was most recently seen hispandering to a crowd of illegals wanting free college. So, of course he would be supporting some corporations here. His pockets are full of money from lobbyists.
Utah needs to get rid of Hatch.
18 posted on 09/18/2003 7:36:14 AM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
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To: old-ager
Backers of the H-1B program argued Tuesday that the visas aren't taking away U.S. jobs, because some technology companies still can't find qualified workers for some positions. Ingersoll-Rand has searched for more than a year to fill a plastics engineer and an industrial robotics engineer position, finally settling on a Canadian resident in both cases, said Elizabeth Dickson, advisor of immigration services for the industrial equipment manufacturer.

This situation is caused by the fact that these companies hiring want an exact match in qualifications, even though most engineers can come up to speed on just about any system or software package in a matter of weeks, if not days (I am an engineer with 16 years experience). Brain-dead Human Resources managers don't get it. They would rather hire an idiot with all the right words on their resume than a smart person who is talented and can adjust skills quickly to meet any demand. Couple this idiotic hiring practice with the fact that Ingersoll was probably offering about half of the $$$ that they should have, and it is easy to see why they are having "trouble" filling positions.

19 posted on 09/18/2003 7:47:38 AM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
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To: old-ager
Warning to all: Texas_Dawg trolls all of these discussions. Probably best to ignore Texas_Dawg.
20 posted on 09/18/2003 7:49:43 AM PDT by old-ager
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