Punch Card vs. Electronic Voting - IT Experts Warn of Security Problems for E-Voting

GoGov.com ^ | September 8, 2003 | Ken "Caesar" Fisher

[BJungNan]

"Our analysis shows that this voting system is far below even the most minimal security standards applicable in other contexts. We highlight several issues including unauthorized privilege escalation, incorrect use of cryptography, vulnerabilities to network threats, and poor software development processes. For example, common voters, without any insider privileges, can cast unlimited votes without being detected by any mechanisms within the voting terminal."

[BJungNan]

This pretty much sums up the article but it does go into more detail, some of which is quite interesting if you are tech minded. So what is the 9th Circuit relying on if there are this many problems with electronic voting. This is what they see as better? Get ready for E-Vote Fraud.

[GOPrincess]

You know, this is something I keep wondering about when I hear about the "need" to change from "unreliable" punch cards to electronic votes. I've personally never had a problem with punch cards, and one of the pluses is it does leave a "hard copy" trail. The system isn't immune to fraudulent interpretation, as we saw in Florida, but basically it works.

What I *don't* get is how electronic voting will be able to be proven to be safe from fraud, hacking, etc. Plus there is no "paper trail" to check against the supposed electronic votes. Modern technology is great in many ways (it lets us participate on FR!) but I'm very suspicious that electronic voting will be more open to manipulation. Thanks for the interesting article.

[tallhappy]

I'd agree. E voting seems much more dangerous than old fashioned punch cards in terms of potential fraud.

[stainlessbanner]

Source doc link: http://www.arstechnica.com/archive/news/1060718045.html

Reboots, recalls, hacks, cracks, viruses, identity theft - it's all here.

Any developers/architects up for this one?

[kellynla]

Excellent article. Excellent points. Thanks for posting. I would add that you have no "paper trail" hence no proof of voting or who and/or how a voter voted. And heaven help us if there is a power shortage or a virus in the system. BTW, Ninth Circuit, since we used the same punch card system last November does that invalidate the entire election of November 2002? hmmmmmmm

[KriegerGeist]

Electronic voting will be nation-wide eventually. The best voting system is the simple paper ballot that you mark like a bingo card and drop into a vote-scan into a locked box.

The simple way will not be implemented...the electronic cyber ether-vote will.

This electronic voting will be under the control of the liberal-geeks that control the hardware and software and subject to their manipulation to obtain their desired results.

It's s done deal.

[rdb3]

I wouldn't touch this with a lazer pointer, my weeble. Fuhgedaboudit.

[45Auto]

Among its other potential faults, e-voting will confound, confuse and otherwise make it even more difficult for the stupid to vote. The RATs in Florida concocted to BS about "hanging chads", etc. They are really in for a suprise when their hired voters, most of whom are too stupid to even know how to register, can't figure out how to use these new machines. The confusion and potential for fraud which is much higher, in my opinion, for electronic voting versus the punch cards, will assure that there will be another year of lawsuits after the March election, should the US SC refuse to hear this case. The ACLU is the staffed by the spawn of satan. They get their marching orders directly from the DNC, so you know who's running the RAT party.

[lelio]

In all my recent voting here in WA state you fill out a scantron (remember SATs from highschool?) and then feed your card into a machine that tabulates the votes.

Its simple and easy. You can spend all day in your booth reading the pamphlet before you fill out your card and there's no one behind you wanting to use the machine.

I would of thought an ATM approach would work, but I've been behind too many morons to ever want to see that happen. Its like they're contemplating world peace when they stand in front of the screen.

Plus with the scantron you get a paper record.

[camle]

as long as a computer calculates ther results, whoever writes the program will determine the result. Scantrons are no exception. These were tried here a few elections ago, and I could have fed several into the machine whilst talking to the attendant. not to mention that any computer programmer can have it LOOK like column one is tabulated, whilst actually taculating column 2.

[ml/nj]

Security Problems for E-Voting

No kidding!

If I got to write the software, no Democrat would ever win any election I cared about again!

ML/NJ

[azhenfud]

"Any developers/architects up for this one?"

Can you flush yer cookies and vote often?

[backhoe]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39861

RE: Jim March's "need a cluster" thread

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/diebold-memos-1.htm

The research and activism arm of BlackBox Voting.com--

Internal Memos: Diebold Doing End-Runs Around Certification

 

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38725

The thumbnail super-condensed version is that Diebold Election Systems sells an electronic vote system that was designed to allow easy vote tampering. The circumstancial evidence is that they DID hack the vote in Georgia's Nov. 2002 races as a test (Diebold runs the whole election in that state).

Diebold has extensive ties to the Republican party.

www.blackboxvoting.org

 

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/971667/posts
Electronic Voting Machines discovered to be "easily hacked"...(2008 ALERT!)
Blackbox Voting ^ | FR Post 8-24-2003 | The research and activism arm of BlackBox Voting.com

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/969234/posts
Dare accepted on electronic voting machines - Programmer says she can crack system
Atlanta Journal and Constitution ^ | Aug 23, 2003 | Jim Galloway
I think it was Lenin who said it doesn't matter who votes, it's who counts them. A verifiable paper trail is the only way to preserve our right to choose our leaders. For some reason our leaders seem hellbent on preventing that from happening.

 

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/965655/posts
Study raises concerns as states rush to buy electronic voting machines
Contra Costa Times ^ | Aug 18, 2003 | Erika D. Smith

 

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/952937/posts
Company defends electronic voting system
AP | 7/26/03 | BRIAN WITTE

 

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/952854/posts
Voting Machine Study Divides Md. Officials, Experts(voting machines could easily be hacked)
Washington Post ^ | Saturday, July 26, 2003 | Brigid Schulte
As soon as the Democrats learn that this easily hacked system can be used to their voter fraud advantage, they'll be all for it.

 

The above are excerpts from:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/772470/posts

The Vote Fraud Archives
various links | 10-20-02 | The Heavy Equipment Guy

[Question_Assumptions]

These are called "features", not bugs. What urban political establishment is going to buy voting machines that can't be rigged?

What I'd really like the meachines to do is to automatically broadcast to a central server how many votes have been cast in the last 15 minutes or so to see if impossible numbers of votes are coming in from any site. This is information that one could get by canvassing voting places, anyway.

[GulliverSwift]

It's hard to believe that anyone would actually want to move to an electronic voting system. Anyone except the Democrats.

[Tarl]

The Liberals/ACLU "pocket" judges are going to great pains to ensure they regain power. Voter fraud is their forte, and now they can add to their convict voters/dead voters/homeless "cigarrette/bussed" voters with illegal immigrant"legal licensed" voters and if thats not enough then surely a few subversive techno hacks can generate some "votes".

[MissBaby]

What I want to know is how the 9th Court could rule on something before it is a problem. Has anyone proved that the punch card system used in the last election was faulty? If so, then they should throw out the last election.

Funny, a voting system good enough to elect a governor is now not good enough to throw him out.

[Tarl]

Your point is very valid and I'm sure that its mere coincidence that Clinton being in the recent headlines as supporting Davis has nothing to do with "political favors owed"...even if Clinton had nothing to do with such decisions, his mere presence inspires the kind of skepticism that undermines unbiased authority.

Distinguishing between Patriots and cowards, our favorite Founder, Samuel Adams said: "Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say, 'What should be the reward of such sacrifices?' ... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom...crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!"
This was quoted from a recent issue of the Federalist!

[BJungNan]

It is so frustrating to watch this take place right before your eyes.

Has anyone heard anything from the major media outlets about the unreliability of E-voting? I read the other stories referenced in this thread. Incredible. The information is out there and it is being ignored. Surely some reporter has to ask, is e-voting better? Is it safe?

[Tarl]

The Democrat's (GORE/LIEBERMAN) shamed our democracy before the world and spread doubt of our own political system. They took the one thing that is symbolic of freedom, our right to vote and demeaned it with the world as their stage. Does it take a far right conspiracy to realize there are "fellow Americans" who trample the very ideals our country was founded on?

Now they want to take this shame that they created in the world's eyes and use that dispicable opportunism to truly undermine the TRUST in our democracy, our esteemed right to vote, a trust that must exist to respect authority and even our fellow man...shame