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All Soldiers Will Be Fighters in the New Army
NY Times ^ | September 4, 2003 | ERIC SCHMITT

Posted on 09/07/2003 10:44:18 AM PDT by Prodigal Son

FORT MONROE, Va., Sept. 4 — The Army is looking to instill the fighting spirit in some unlikely combatants — its cooks, mechanics and other support troops who are normally far from the front lines.

Unlike the Marine Corps, whose credo is that every marine is first and foremost a rifleman, the Army has too many soldiers who have lost touch with their inner warrior, said Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes, the Army's top training general.

And, he said, it is time the Army borrowed a lesson from the Marines.

"We've become too specialized," said General Byrnes, the head of Training and Doctrine Command here. "Ask a junior enlisted who they are, and they'll tell you, `I'm a mechanic,' not I'm a soldier. We need to change that culturally in the Army."

So beginning next year for soldiers and in three years for officers, the Army plans to formally inculcate what it calls a "warrior ethos" throughout the ranks.

Army officials are not worried about the battle-readiness of their front-line fighting ranks, like infantry and armor troops. But for support troops, many of whom rarely handle a weapon or drill for combat after basic training, the strategy will probably mean more marksmanship practice, tougher physical training and, for officers, more small-unit leadership skills in the field.

The issue of instilling a combat mindset in troops working behind the lines has taken on added resonance since the ambush of an Army supply convoy in Iraq in March that resulted in the deaths of 11 Americans and the capture of Pfc. Jessica D. Lynch and six other soldiers.

Although the soldiers had completed basic training, they were mostly cooks, mechanics and other support personnel who had little or no combat experience.

But Army officials here said that emphasizing a warrior mentality throughout the ranks had been under way for 18 months as leaders in the Pentagon designed a force for the future that would be agile as well as lethal, and prepared to fight on a battlefield, like Iraq, without traditional front lines and rear areas.

Under plans General Byrnes discussed with reporters here, freshly commissioned second lieutenants would take a new six-week basic leadership course after receiving their commission. Eighty percent of that leadership training would take place in the field.

Officers would then go on to training in their specialized areas, like infantry, armor or intelligence, as they do now after they receive their commissions.

General Byrnes said four pilot programs had been conducted at Fort Benning, Ga., to test the concept for officers and proved successful enough that the training for new officers Army-wide would begin in early 2006. Similarly, the warrior mindset will be included in enlisted soldiers' nine-week basic training courses and their speciality training after that, beginning next year. Support troops could be tested on marksmanship twice a year, like infantry soldiers, instead of annually, as they are now.

In some ways that new emphasis has started. Training instructors in Aberdeen, Md., recite the individual citations from Medal of Honor recipients to inspire recruits. Officials here said the new credo for all soldiers is "put the mission first, refuse to accept defeat, never quit and never leave behind a fellow American."

Maj. Gen. Raymond D. Barrett Jr., a top aide to General Byrnes, said the change meant that support troops would still have physical training requirements, but they might include going through obstacle courses under stressful conditions simulating a combat setting.

Or a mechanic might pass a final advanced training course by repairing an armored vehicle damaged during a mock ambush at night and under simulated hostile conditions.

"The question is, do they think they feel like a soldier?" General Barrett said. "This would test them as mechanics, but it would also test their perseverance."


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 507th; army; fortmonroe; military; soldiers; transformation; warriors
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To: jwalsh07
We'll see. It's nice to see Shinseki's Clintonistas going away with one last catty speech at a retirement ceremony, anyway. But this new guy still raises a few questions, I think.
  1. Why don't we show we're serious, like the Marines, and return to combat-oriented basic training, with the sexes trained separately, like the Marines?

  2. some unlikely combatants — its cooks, mechanics and other support troops who are normally far from the front lines. These guys have been likely combatants since the invention of Blitzkrieg. (That was around the time Henry Ford started selling the V-8 engine. Eisenhower was a Captain, and the Army was failing to fly the air mail). The Army pulling its head out of wherever it's been, and suddenly perceiving the problem, doesn't mean the problem's new.

  3. the Army has too many soldiers who have lost touch with their inner warrior, said Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes, the Army's top training general. Well, no joke, Sherlock Holmes, TRADOC has dropped everything to try to put them in touch with their nurturing, feminine side for the last ten years or so.

  4. So beginning next year for soldiers and in three years for officers, the Army plans to formally inculcate what it calls a "warrior ethos" throughout the ranks. This guy isn't exactly on fire with urgency, is he?

  5. Army officials here said that emphasizing a warrior mentality throughout the ranks had been under way for 18 months. One word: Bullshit.

  6. prepared to fight on a battlefield, like Iraq, without traditional front lines and rear areas. The Army has been talking this talk since the 1950s but they have yet to walk the walk. You would think that the Army never fought guerillas before (what were the Indians, for crying out loud? Or the Phillipine Insurrection, 100 years ago?). Naw, it's just that a lot of the generals majored in Phys Ed and never read a book since.

  7. freshly commissioned second lieutenants would take a new six-week basic leadership course after receiving their commission.... General Byrnes said four pilot programs had been conducted at Fort Benning, Ga., to test the concept for officers and proved successful... This is not new, and he's not describing it honestly. What they have been doing is sending soldiers from all branches to the first six weeks of the Infantry Officer Basic Course, and the reason they have been doing it is, to work out the bugs in sending women to IOBC. In the process, they have reduced IOBC, which was never exactly Ranger-tough, to female level. That's great; we'll be sending officers to the tournament who have all only golfed from the ladies' tees. And as far as proving successful, it was command-defined as a success from the beginning, no real testing was done, and no contrary opinions (which are plentiful) were welcome.

  8. Similarly, the warrior mindset will be included in enlisted soldiers' nine-week basic training courses and their speciality training after that, beginning next year. Bwahahahaha! This is a tacit admission that "the warrior mindset" is absent from basic training. Pretty amusing as Pentagon flacks have been swearing on the Hill it's as good as it ever was, a fiction even they don't really believe.

  9. Support troops could be tested on marksmanship twice a year, like infantry soldiers, instead of annually, as they are now. While testing is important, if there is no training we might as well collect up the guns and give them Wrist Rockets. Training means you need to make time (i.e. cut some of the 100+ hours of social indoctrination crap) and spend money (since ammunition can't be bought equally in 435 House districts, it isn't popular on the Hill).

  10. the new credo for all soldiers is "put the mission first, refuse to accept defeat, never quit and never leave behind a fellow American." That this is new to the Clerkocracy of the Army ought to be a scandal.

  11. "The question is, do they think they feel like a soldier?" General Barrett said. No, you ignoramus, it's do they perform like soldiers. The enemy doesn't give a damn about their ickle feelings. and neither should you. You need to focus on performance.
One final thought: While mechanics occasionally have to fight when things go badly, it's more important in the grand scheme of things that they be good mechanics. But they need to know their weapons. About ten of our Iraq KIAs have been kids who were shot by themselves or their buddies, usually because someone who was poorly trained was playing wannabee Ranger with a gun. Every one of those cases leaves a family in ruins, and every one is because the training base (i.e. TRADOC) failed to train the soldiers to be comfortably familiar with their weapons, and their unit leadership failed to lead them. if you started relieving COs and 1st Sergeants when a unit was negligent with firearms, you would at once be removing failed leaders and saving American lives. Unfortunately, to most generals an officer's career has more weight than a private's life.

We have a great Army, but the greatness often comes despite the men at the top, not because of them.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

21 posted on 09/07/2003 12:17:44 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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To: Prodigal Son
bfl
22 posted on 09/07/2003 12:28:37 PM PDT by dts32041 ("Moderate Arab" he's the one who detonates his bomb via remote control.)
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To: Congressman Billybob
In December, 1945, my uncle, Col. Arthur Parker, was 30 miles behind the German lines, in charge of a support unit that contained cooks, truck drivers and the like, in a small town in Belgium.

Must have been commando cooks.

23 posted on 09/07/2003 12:41:12 PM PDT by Restorer (Never let schooling interfere with your education.)
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To: Criminal Number 18F
AIRBORNE! Nothing else to add to that excellent post.
24 posted on 09/07/2003 12:45:28 PM PDT by RANGERAIRBORNE ("Si vis pacem, para bellum"- still good advice after 2000 years.)
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To: PatrioticAmerican
This was predicted years ago when the issue was first raised. First, call then "non-combatants" then switch the title. Social experiment concluded: Women are now in combat.

Actually, the point is with Maneuver Warfare, supply units and other rear-eschelon types will find themselves on the front a lot more, and they will need to be able to defend themselves. What this means is that our army will continue employing the strategy and tactics of Maneuver Warfare (which is probably a good thing, given how successful it's been in recent and ancient history). We can't have supply units being ambushed and taken hostage because their M16s jammed because they didn't clean them often enough.

25 posted on 09/07/2003 1:53:40 PM PDT by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: Restorer
Brain freeze. I meant to write that Col. Parker's unit was "thirty miles behind the front," or "thirty miles away from the Germans," instead of what I actually wrote. Sorry about that. I gather most readers read what I meant to say instead of what I did say.

John / Billybob

26 posted on 09/07/2003 2:17:28 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (Everyone talks about Congress; time to act on it. www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: Prodigal Son
Does this mean the non-infantry that find themselves in combat will not be eligible for the CIB? Should it?
27 posted on 09/07/2003 2:25:15 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon
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To: Congressman Billybob
No problem. I just thought it was funny as written. I didn't realize it was that easy to infiltrate the German lines!
28 posted on 09/07/2003 2:37:09 PM PDT by Restorer (Never let schooling interfere with your education.)
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To: Jeff Gordon
Now that is an interesting question.
29 posted on 09/07/2003 2:56:48 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Prof Engineer
About damn time... too many REMFs... we need to get to a Starship Trooper (the book) mindset...

Everybody drops... everybody fights...


30 posted on 09/07/2003 3:07:33 PM PDT by g'nad
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To: g'nad
we need to get to a Starship Trooper (the book) mindset...

That was a great book. I agree 100%

31 posted on 09/07/2003 3:10:01 PM PDT by Prof Engineer (HHD - Blast it Jim. I'm an Engineer, not a walking dictionary.)
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To: Prodigal Son
I'm pleased that they recognized the problem and may have a chance of fixing it. I'm sorry the problem ever existed.
32 posted on 09/07/2003 3:16:30 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith (The Guns of Brixton)
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To: Congressman Billybob
He was in the Engineer Company, was it the 144th?
I have a book about that.
Kept the Germans from reaching the main fuel dump.
33 posted on 09/07/2003 3:25:31 PM PDT by tet68
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To: Prof Engineer
I've heard lots of people cite this book as a good read but have never picked it up. I suppose I will have to get down to the bookstore and add it to the pile... That many Freepers can't be wrong.
34 posted on 09/07/2003 3:28:06 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Jeff Gordon
1. No

2. No. Combat arms ouside of the infantry don't get the EIB. Why should anyone else?

35 posted on 09/07/2003 3:29:55 PM PDT by Gamecock (Why TULIP? Because the Bible teaches it as the inspired word of The One Holy Sovereign God!)
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To: gunnyg; Poohbah; LadyX; kellynla; OldCorps; RaceBannon
The Army is learning from your Corps? About time they did that. Semper Fidelis!
36 posted on 09/07/2003 3:31:53 PM PDT by CARepubGal
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To: CARepubGal
Hi Gal, what are you doing out of the religious ghetto?

I snuck out to see what's going on the the big city, time to get back! ;-}
37 posted on 09/07/2003 3:36:15 PM PDT by Gamecock (Why TULIP? Because the Bible teaches it as the inspired word of The One Holy Sovereign God!)
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To: Criminal Number 18F
Great post-bump.
38 posted on 09/07/2003 3:50:57 PM PDT by 91B (Golly it's hot.)
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To: Prodigal Son
Army has too many soldiers who have lost touch with their inner warrior, said Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes, the Army's top training general.

OK first using the terms "lost touch with their inner warrior"... is part of the problem

39 posted on 09/07/2003 3:54:51 PM PDT by tophat9000 (Free Republic ..You have to support, things we don't support, to get our support.... goofy isn’t it?)
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To: Gamecock
Same thing you are: snuck out to see the rest of the world (bad bad me!) ;-)
40 posted on 09/07/2003 4:04:10 PM PDT by CARepubGal
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