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Dumbing-Down the Pro-life Movement
CatholicCitizens.Org ^
| 9/1/03
| Dr. Brian Kopp
Posted on 09/01/2003 7:03:21 PM PDT by Polycarp
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1
posted on
09/01/2003 7:03:21 PM PDT
by
Polycarp
To: boromeo; .45MAN; AAABEST; AKA Elena; al_c; american colleen; Angelus Errare; Antoninus; ...
It can be argued that the dumbing-down of the pro-life movement (i.e. the acceptance of contraception and exceptions) has prevented any real success in advancing pro-life legislation, and set the movement back. By diluting traditional doctrines of sexual morality within the Pro-life movement, it has become less of a moral movement, and more of a political fishnet designed for harvesting voters for right of center Republican candidates who are expected to moderate their Pro-life views with sufficient exceptions to be deemed electible.Ping.(As usual, if you would like to be added to or removed from my "conservative Catholics" ping list, just send me a FReepmail. Please realize that some of my "ping" posts are long.)
2
posted on
09/01/2003 7:07:01 PM PDT
by
Polycarp
(When a mother can kill her own child, what is left of the West to save?" - Mother Theresa)
To: Polycarp
Welcom to Post-Moral America.
3
posted on
09/01/2003 7:07:45 PM PDT
by
Happy2BMe
(LIBERTY has arrived in Iraq - Now we can concentrate on HOLLYWEED!)
To: Polycarp
It can be argued that the dumbing-down of the pro-life movement (i.e. the acceptance of contraception and exceptions) has prevented any real success in advancing pro-life legislation, and set the movement back. Brian, this is the kind of "all-or-nothing" menatality that marginalizes conservatives.
If you want to do anything in the political arena, you make compromises.
If we want to occupy the moral high ground, with no exceptions, we can do that, but we'll do nothing politically.
Moral purity is not the problem with the pro-life movement.
4
posted on
09/01/2003 7:12:49 PM PDT
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter. You'll save a life, and enrich your own!)
To: Polycarp
"abortion is of the same character as the decision to use contraception"
Now there's a big tent to get under.
This just shows how extreme some people are.
To: Polycarp
Kopp ignores a critical distinction. From the point of view of Catholic doctrine, there is a continuity between the teachings on contraception and on abortion. However, the case against contraception DEPENDS on Catholic presuppositions in a way that the case against abortion does not. The case against abortion may be made effectively to a secular but intellectually honest society (which, on the whole, the U.S.A. still is). On the other hand, you will not get an intelligent person to UNDERSTAND, let alone accept, the teaching against artificial contraception until you have first made the case for Christian sexual morality in general (and THAT case can currently be made much more effectively in a private than in a political context).
C.S. Lewis perceived the switch more than four decades ago, when he wrote that contraceptives had removed the biggest practical argument against fornication (because of the great reduction in risk of pregnancy), and that therefore you must FIRST make the case for Christianity to modern adults before you can make the case for Christian sexual morals. (Of course, other religions also condemn fornication, so the same remarks apply, though I am only concerned with Christianity here.)
Catholics may do well to learn the entire doctrine on sexual morals, but in the context of fighting abortion in a secular society (as opposed to persuading just Catholics) the issue of contraception should be put aside (except, of course, that abortifacient "contraception" should be called by its right name of abortion and fought as such).
To: sinkspur
I know all that Sink. Do you at least grasp the point I'm trying to make here? You can't kill a pernicious weed if you don't know it has, or fail to attack, its taproot. Its like fighting dandelions. If you pull off the top every day for a year, you'll still have a dandelion in your yard at the end of the year.
But if you attack its central root, you'll get rid of it.
We've been "pulling the top off dandelions" for 3 decades in the pro-life movement, and the general movement to this day refuses to admit to the existence of the taproot of abortion.
The entire movement either a) is ignorant of the fact the taproot exists or b) knows it exists but refuses to admit or conceive of the fact that if you don't kill the roots, you won't kill the weed. Frankly, I think certain Catholics are just too embarassed to point out the taproot, for fear of ridicule among by the rest of the dumbed down movement.
I want to kill the weed, not continue to pop off its head each day for another 3 decades only to see another or several grow in its place, just because of political expediency. If it can't be done politically, then its time for pro-lifers to pull outta politics and re evangelize the culture about the roots of abortion, which is and always will be the contraceptive mentality.
7
posted on
09/01/2003 7:28:13 PM PDT
by
Polycarp
(When a mother can kill her own child, what is left of the West to save?" - Mother Theresa)
To: John Beresford Tipton
This just shows how extreme some people are.The quote is from the Supreme Court decision in PP Vs Casey. Or were you pointing out that the Supreme Court is extreme?
8
posted on
09/01/2003 7:29:54 PM PDT
by
Polycarp
(When a mother can kill her own child, what is left of the West to save?" - Mother Theresa)
To: VeritatisSplendor
I am Kopp. See my profile page for the historical timeline of Christian teaching against contraception. I spend the majority of my time here trying to educate our separated brethren on this very issue.
9
posted on
09/01/2003 7:31:38 PM PDT
by
Polycarp
(When a mother can kill her own child, what is left of the West to save?" - Mother Theresa)
To: Polycarp
Furthermore, it is at best very misleading to say that contraception is of the same "character" as abortion. As sins, they are incommensurable. As a matter of personal moral development, it is correct to say that accepting contraception is a necessary preliminary to accepting abortion, simply because no one who accepts the teaching on contraception would deny the teaching on abortion, but that's politically irrelevant.
To: Polycarp
If it can't be done politically, then its time for pro-lifers to pull outta politics and re evangelize the culture about the roots of abortion, which is and always will be the contraceptive mentality. Brian, this is an even larger uphill climb than arguing against abortion.
Contraception is a settled issue with the vast majority of the population.
Abortion is a much more grievous act than contraception, and contraception doesn't, of necessity, lead to abortions.
This is a Quixote-like quest.
11
posted on
09/01/2003 7:33:17 PM PDT
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter. You'll save a life, and enrich your own!)
To: Polycarp
These off the wall extremists, Taliban without turbans, like the writer start off with a plan, the old "slippery slope plan."
They will start with something patently offensive, partial birth abortion.
Then if they can ban that, they will start month by month to move that back to totally outlaw abortion.
Then if they can do that they want to outlaw contraception.
Then I would not be surprised if their next step is to declare a miniumum number of children per couple to be considered "moral persons". If medically that is impossible for an individual then perhaps they will set up a Church court to consider granting an exception, but only if you get a doctor's note.
To: VeritatisSplendor
the issue of contraception should be put aside Its been put aside since the inception of the pro-life movement, unfortunately. Obviously, the pro-life movement has faltered to a standstill.
See my comment #7 to Sinkspur.
13
posted on
09/01/2003 7:34:47 PM PDT
by
Polycarp
(When a mother can kill her own child, what is left of the West to save?" - Mother Theresa)
To: VeritatisSplendor
Furthermore, it is at best very misleading to say that contraception is of the same "character" as abortion. That was a direct quote from the US Supreme Court in Planned Parenthood vs. Casey. It is NOT misleading, if you grasp the core of the battle of the culture of life against the culture of death.
14
posted on
09/01/2003 7:37:36 PM PDT
by
Polycarp
(When a mother can kill her own child, what is left of the West to save?" - Mother Theresa)
To: sinkspur
Contraception is a settled issue with the vast majority of the population. So what? Because the vast majority of the population has embraced what is objectively mortal sin, we're just going to walk away from the battle because some bigoted moron calls us TALIBANIC? I'm not afraid to step out of my comfort zone when it comes to the "hard word." I will not be cowed into silence by the dumbed down who think their shouts of "Talibanic Catholic" will defeat the Truth.
contraception doesn't, of necessity, lead to abortions
Are you so deceived by the culture at large that you honestly believe this, or just too embarassed by the pugilistic bullies of this kind of Forum to stand up for the Truth that abortion became legal because contraception was embraced as a way of life?
15
posted on
09/01/2003 7:44:19 PM PDT
by
Polycarp
(When a mother can kill her own child, what is left of the West to save?" - Mother Theresa)
To: Polycarp
Kopp, thank you for your contribution to the forum.
As a pro-lifer, I absolutely agree with the contraception-abortion linkage, and that the pro-life movement MAY have made a mistake in the late 60s to ignore contraception and concentrate only on abortion. If that policy stance had taken place, the pro-life movement would (accurately) have been perceived as a "Catholic-only" movement. It could have influenced the mainstream and moved opinion generally against contraception, at least morally (probably not legally), OR it could have made the pro-life movement into a meaningless fringe group. Given the dominance of libs in the pre-Internet media, I personally think the latter would have occurred, but we'll never know.
The real question is what to do now in 2003. Is it more important to concentrate on outlawing abortion and euthanasia, or is it more important to go for the entire pro-life enchilada, including a ban on contraception? I believe the former is achievable legislatively pretty quickly (saving 1.4 million babies a year), and that the latter will NEVER be achieved legislatively (OK, maybe in 50 years), but instead will occur after decades of changing hearts and minds.
The latter requires a wholesale turnaround of almost all Protestant religions and a return of Catholicism to its orthodox roots before a legislative solution can even be considered. Going for the whole enchilada now, IMHO, guarantees that the abortion holocaust will continue indefinitely.
To: Loyalist
Care to ping your trad list for a little heated discussion on an important culture wars issue?
17
posted on
09/01/2003 7:53:05 PM PDT
by
Polycarp
(When a mother can kill her own child, what is left of the West to save?" - Mother Theresa)
To: litany_of_lies
Who is talking about "banning" contraception?!? I'm talking about education and evangelization of the "pro-life" movement ITSELF!
The latter requires a wholesale turnaround of almost all Protestant religions and a return of Catholicism to its orthodox roots before a legislative solution can even be considered.
This is exactly what its going to take to turn around just abortion.
Going for the whole enchilada now, IMHO, guarantees that the abortion holocaust will continue indefinitely.
If Christianity does not return to its roots on all of moral theology, including contraception, it will be a moot point.
The modern culture of death is built upon apostacy of Christianity on contraception. If Christianity does not turnaround on this issue, there will be no victory on abortion, because there CANNOT be victory against abortion in a contraceptive mentality culture.
Its either both or none. The pro-life movement needs to decide.
18
posted on
09/01/2003 8:00:37 PM PDT
by
Polycarp
(When a mother can kill her own child, what is left of the West to save?" - Mother Theresa)
To: Polycarp
I support your mission of "trying to educate our separated brethren" 100%. My remarks were about the political struggle in the society as a whole. It seems to me that stopping abortion in the U.S.A. will be easier than converting the whole U.S.A. to the Catholic faith, desirable as the latter may be. We shouldn't deny the existence of the "taproot" (that our society is disordered with respect to sexual morality altogether, and suffers the "contraceptive mentality" Paul VI warned against); but effective collaboration with non-Catholics in the political arena can be damaged severely by overemphasis on contraception (though our discussions with those "separated brethren" AS CHRISTIANS ought never to ignore or set aside Catholic doctrine).
To: VeritatisSplendor
effective collaboration with non-Catholics in the political arena can be damaged severely by overemphasis on contraception But this is precisely my point: there's no effective collaboration with our separated brethren, there is no point in ever trying, WITHOUT addressing contraception.
The pro-life movement will NEVER succeed UNTIL we address the contraception issue. Legalized abortion was and remains the natural and logical result of the cultural embrace and legalization of the contraceptive lifestyle.
Trying to fight abortion without addressing its root cause is pointless. It will not ever bear fruit. Contraception simply CANNOT be overemphasized because it remains the only emphasis never addressed and the only one that holds the key to defeating abortion.
20
posted on
09/01/2003 8:11:47 PM PDT
by
Polycarp
(When a mother can kill her own child, what is left of the West to save?" - Mother Theresa)
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