U.S. Muslims regret support for Bush, won’t repeat it in ’04

Wilmington Star ^ | 9-1-03 | Staff

[veronica]

Even before the Sept. 11 attacks and the crackdown that followed, American Muslim leaders generally had come to believe they had made a mistake.

In 2000, they made their first unified endorsement in a presidential race, backing George W. Bush. Many thought he would take a harder line against Israel, and, based on statements he made while campaigning, would protect the rights of immigrants facing deportation.

Muslims say they were disappointed on both counts. Now, feeling the additional sting of being scrutinized in the domestic hunt for terrorists, they are mobilizing to express their anger at the polls in 2004.

At their largest convention of the year, which ends today, national Muslim leaders announced plans to register 1 million Muslim voters and make civil rights a top issue in any endorsement of a presidential candidate.

"A defining moment of Islam in America is approaching," said Nihad Awad, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a civil rights group based in Washington. "We cannot surrender our future and our destiny to hate in this country."

Agha Saeed, head of the Muslim American Congress, led the crowd in a chant. "I am an American, I am a Muslim and I vote," he said, joined by thousands gathered for the Islamic Society of North America meeting.

After the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Mr. Bush won points with American Muslims by visiting a mosque and declaring Islam a peaceful religion.

But since then, the federal government has detained hundreds of immigrants, shut down U.S. Muslim charities suspected of terrorist ties and gained broad new powers to monitor citizens under the USA Patriot Act.

The Bush administration said these moves have been crucial for U.S. security. American Muslims say they are being scapegoated.

A White House spokesman referred questions about the presidential race to the Bush campaign, whose spokeswoman did not immediately reply to a request for comment Sunday.

It is unclear what effect Muslims can have in the 2004 elections.

Estimates of the number of U.S. Muslims vary dramatically from 2 million to 6 million. But immigrant Muslims generally are highly educated professionals with the means to make significant campaign donations.

Also, their community has matured dramatically in the past four years.

The assault on Islam that followed the suicide hijackings that killed thousands in New York and Washington compelled Muslims around the country to defend their faith.

National Muslim organizations, including Mr. Awad’s, reported a dramatic increase in donations and membership.

[sinkspur]

Sell crazy somewhere else.....

Why? You do such a good job with every post.

[RobbyS]

Their attitude towarde Isreal is conditioned on their understanding of its constitution. They like the idea of a Jewsish state, they like its democratic socialism. They must, I gather they somewhat embarrassed by its racialism.

Israel reminds me, to a degree, of Poland under Marshall Pilsudski. 30% of Poland in those days consisted of racial minorities and only Poles had first class citizenship. It is often said, quite truthfully, that the Arabs in Israel might more rights than they do in, say Jordan. Likewise, Jews, Ukrainians, Germans et al. had more rights than they had in many surrounding countries, even in some cases, their national states. But the lack of equality encouraged emigration. Polish Jews who went to Palestine, including men like Begin, admired Pilsudski and his benevolent tyranny.

I must concede the point that Israel, besides being a kind of socialist state, is also the Holocaust state. I guess this is how Liberal Jews justify its racialism. It is the Jewish homeland, a symbol of the survival of the Jewish people, although more Jew live elsewhere. Doubtless, American Jews would be devastated if Israel were to be ruined. But they would also be horrified if Israel would become a state defined by its religion rather its social democracy, an event that would make it even more racial.

Paradoxically, it is this last possibility that energizes Evangelical Christians to support Israel.Some of them see in present events a stage preparatory for the Second Coming of Jesus. If American Jews think of Israel in messianic terms, it is in terms of an Israel that serves as a beacon of "enlightenment" in the Middle East, a kind of Sweden, not a "Third Commonweal"with the whole region bowing before the God of Israel. But The Jews in the United States are thoroughly convinced that the Democratic Party in the United States better represents the ideal that see in Israel. That is not religious but socialist. Hence in any American election they are acting as proxies of the Labor Party.

[Timmy]

Ann Coulter is right. Another anti-American group declares themselves to be Democrats.

[singsong]

No wonder some blacks mistrust all whites.
Anyone is welcome to mistrust me! And I insist on my freedom to mistrust. Muslims have nasty texts about Chrisitans in their books. The only reasonable ground for relations is "trust but verify". Emphasis on "verify"...

[inflorida]

I have to agree with you for the most part...
There is an arab family near me and for years we always suspected something was up...lots of nice cars coming and going at all hours, weird behavior, etc...turns out the head of this family was arrested earlier this year after a three year investigation into him. The charges are numerous and include illegal immigration of palestinians and donations of hundreds of thousands of dollars to suspected terrorist organizations posing as charities.
He is currently under house arrest awaiting trial and his lawyer has turned it into a circus.

[TexasCowboy]

Hi, Daughter!
Good to see ya.

One point that I'd make here:
I lived in their country for awhile, and I had some Muslim friends who were just ordinary people.
One thing I was never allowed to forget, however, was that I was an infidel.
Infidels can never attain the stature of Muslims in their eyes.
They can be friendly, but when it comes to a choice about who they support, it will be another Muslim.
Count on it.

[veronica]

But The Jews in the United States are thoroughly convinced that the Democratic Party in the United States better represents the ideal that see in Israel. That is not religious but socialist. Hence in any American election they are acting as proxies of the Labor Party.

What tripe. The amusing thing about the anti-Israel crowd, is that they can't decide if all Jews are "socialists", or if all Jews are warmongering "neo-con" Republicans. American Jews don't march in lockstep. There are leftwing Jews and conservative Jews. Same goes for Christians by the way.

[Ukiapah Heep]

BFHD. How many electoral votes does Guanatnamo Bay have?

[Arkady]

I don't drink liquor....but my free speech makes you want to cut my tongue out I'm sure....do they have these forums in islamo-land?

[Arkady]

None. But that's still more than they had in their own countries.

[cwb]

"On the one hand they view them as poor, oppressed (by "whitey"), helpless people of color who are simply in desperate need of a little guidance."

Yeah...and lets not forget that since many of them hate America, they're more than welcome among the rest of the dreds of society who despise America within the liberal party. It is an interesting dicotonomy that the so-called progressive party would not only extend a hand for votes, but defend an ideology that is so clearly opposed to (classical) liberalism. It must be the "hate" they all share. The arrogance of liberalism is that they actually believe they can control this little (religious) attitude problem.

[Scenic Sounds]

I don't drink liquor....

Good. (I don't either.)

but my free speech makes you want to cut my tongue out I'm sure....

Nah, I just want to see the healthy side of Arkady. You said some very nasty things to a very nice lady today.

do they have these forums in islamo-land?

LOL. Did someone tell you that I'm a travel agent?

Now, you have a good afternoon. And try to behave yourself!! ;-)

[singsong]

DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet:Okay. All Muslims are bad, violent people, and they should be rounded up on trains, shipped off to a remote location, and euthanized. Richard W.:Hey, welcome to the world of compassionate neoconazis and pod people. Hate everyone who doesn't share your narrow world view. The operative word is always -- HATE.

Richard, the quote was used sarcastically by Daughter. It means the opposite of what you make it look like. People urged caution, Daughter mocked them with it. Your "HATE" is only yours. Out of hate you lied, Richard. Again.

[tkathy]

"All Muslims are not Mohammed Attas. They just are not"

There were peaceful Germans in WWII. There were peaceful Japanese in WWII. There were peaceful Russians during the cold war. Muslims who don't speak up are enablers at best.

[RobbyS]

Who is anti-Israel ? I just happen to think that most American Jews are doctrinaire liberals to whom loyalty to Israel is but one element and not the supreme element in their world view. Hence the majority would never vote for a Republican just because he was more pro-Israeli than his opponent(differences between the two parties are minor anyway) In general, I would exempt "Orthodox" Jews of all stripes.

MY support for Israel is purely pragmatic. I know that the hostility of Arabs toward Israel is really an expression of general hostility toward the West. If it had gone under in 1948, something else would have risen. I value Israel as a stable and competent military ally with the same enemies as ours. Hard to get these. Look at the way the Turks ratted on us.

[Arkady]

I don't drink, but in America, i certainly could.
One sign of good-health would be if these "peaceful muslims" would take a very strong stand against their violent, death-dealing brethren.
To answer my own question, no, you could not have this discussion (or many others in a muslim country.)
Yours in tolerance,
Arkady

[arete]

Out of hate you lied, Richard. Again.

So typical of the hate promoters -- accuse the other person of that which you are so obviously guilty. It's call projection and it is the ugly side of almost all neoconazi, pod people and bot postings.

Richard W.

[TommyDale]

Ever hear of the term "backlash", Muslims?

[singsong]

One sign of good-health would be if these "peaceful muslims" would take a very strong stand against their violent, death-dealing brethren.

Very true. I have urged apparent Muslims here on FR to create some kind of tolerance movement within their Islamic community. I've got very vague and evasive responses and I'm not holding my breath. Without a serious discussion about Koran's attitude towards Christians, there is no hope.

[marron]

This brings up what is to me an important point. In a democracy, we share power with other members of our community, we share our sovereignty with our fellows.

But we don't share sovereignty, or power over ourselves, with just anyone. Our citizenship rules and our immigration laws are the means by which we define who we will and who we will not be ruled by.

The subversion of immigration and citizenship laws can put us in the position of being ruled by people we never agreed to be ruled by. That is the unstated jist of this article, that we have allowed Muslims into the country in sufficient numbers that they will have a voice in the next election, which is to say, they will have power over us. Not unlimited power, but power nonetheless.

In a democracy, where you give power over your self to your neighbors, immigration and citizenship policy is of crucial importance.