Posted on 09/01/2003 4:05:03 AM PDT by CalvaryJohn
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Christian and Libertarian
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: September 1, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
Every week, someone asks me what it means to be a Christian Libertarian. Almost as often, I hear from Republicans disgusted with their party's abandonment of its purported principles of small government, social conservatism and adherence to the Constitution, who are nevertheless afraid of switching their allegiance to the godless Libertarians.
It has been said that a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged. In like manner, a libertarian is a conservative who's been mugged by the government. There is no criminal gang or collection of scam artists who perpetrate even a small fraction of the crimes that the federal government commits and abets – from the forgeries and inflationary confiscations of the U.S. Treasury to the cowardly corruption of the judiciary, from the extra-Constitutional executive orders of the president to the treasonous signings-away of national sovereignty by Congress.
One need not be an atheist or a devotee of Shub-Niggurath to oppose these things. Indeed, I suspect the problem many Christians and conservative Republicans have with making the leap to Libertarianism is that they still see a connection between the concepts of legality and morality. But there is no inherent relationship between the two; indeed, it is becoming increasingly obvious that it is not possible to honor both in many aspects of American life.
"It's the law!" is not a moral argument. It is an argument based on the threat of force. Yesterday the law required one to return an escaped slave to his owner; tomorrow it will require one to have an implanted Social Security number when one simply wants to buy Cheerios at the supermarket. In a secular society, the law's moral neutrality is the best for which one can hope. And the law is impossible to obey, even for the most servile citizen – no one truly knows the laws because no one reads them, not even the politicians who pass them!
Then there are those conservatives who simply do not have a real commitment to individual freedom. They believe that government power is like a light switch, to be switched on to enforce policies they favor – such as banning private development on scenic lands – but switched off in the case of policies they do not. This is optimistic lunacy, since the argument for limited government does not rest upon the notion that the government always does undesirable things, but on the idea that if it can, it eventually will.
The same government that has the power to ban a private house on the beach also has the power to sell the beach to Wal-Mart or build a nuclear power plant on it. Since the Founding Fathers understood that a Marcus Aurelius was always followed by a Commodus, they tried to construct a system that would prevent either. Good central government, even when it exists, is a short-lived beast.
And Libertarianism is not inherently godless. In fact, it is the only political philosophy that is truly in accordance with Christianity. The Christian religion posits an all-powerful God who nevertheless permits humanity to turn its back on Him. This shows an extreme respect for free will and for the very sort of individual choice that is banned by Democrats and Republicans alike as they attempt to enforce their will upon the people through the power of government.
The basic principle of Libertarianism is not anarchic. There are real limits. My free will ends where yours begins. Neither the community nor I have any claim whatsoever on your property or your life, and a libertarian legal system would be structured around that principle. Do not be misled by the false "pro-choice" rhetoric of the infanticidal abortionettes; when one individual decides the fate of another, it is nothing more than the ancient law of tooth and claw. Still, their very terminology is the homage vice pays to virtue.
And what of the Christian element? Christianity is integral to the philosophy, as without the spiritual core of its demand for free will responsibility, libertarianism has a tendency to devolve into simple utilitarianism, which eventually leads to the very collectivism it was conceived to oppose. The occasional perversions of princes of the various churches notwithstanding, Christianity is timeless and so provides the inexhaustible spring of moral refreshment that is necessary to any political ideology that hopes to resist corruption over time.
To love Jesus Christ and individual freedom; that is what it means to be a Christian Libertarian.
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Vox Day is a novelist and Christian libertarian. He is a member of the SFWA, Mensa and the Southern Baptist Convention. He has been down with Madden since 1992.
This shows an extreme respect for free will and for the very sort of individual choice that is banned by Democrats and Republicans alike as they attempt to enforce their will upon the people through the power of government.
Excellent points.
Romans 13:1-2 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
Yep, classic Libertarianism - Rebellion at its core. "Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft" - 1 Samuel 15:23
Vox Day may be a Libertarian, but he is certainly not a Christian.
Which, of course, explains why it is attractive to Atheists, dopers, sexual deviants and the profoundly selfish (think Ayn Rand). I am sure that the Christian finds fellowship with Selfish God hating sodomites stoned on crack-cocaine.
In fact, it is the only political philosophy that is truly in accordance with Christianity.
Really, and what political party did Jesus Christ and the disciples align themselves with? Actually, the only politcal party that God wanted for Israel was an autocratic theocracy with our example being the economy of Moses and circuit judges. Later, because of the stubborness of the people, God gave Israel a King complete with a list of things to watch out for:
1 Sam 8:9-18 Now therefore, heed their voice. However, you shall solemnly forewarn them, and show them the behavior of the king who will reign over them." So Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who asked him for a king. And he said, "This will be the behavior of the king who will reign over you: He will take your sons and appoint them for his own chariots and to be his horsemen, and some will run before his chariots. "He will appoint captains over his thousands and captains over his fifties, will set some to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and some to make his weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. "He will take your daughters to be perfumers, cooks, and bakers. "And he will take the best of your fields, your vineyards, and your olive groves, and give them to his servants. "He will take a tenth of your grain and your vintage, and give it to his officers and servants. "And he will take your male servants, your female servants, your finest young men, and your donkeys, and put them to his work. "He will take a tenth of your sheep. And you will be his servants. "And you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, and the LORD will not hear you in that day."
Not so much different from today's political system.
The Christian religion posits an all-powerful God who nevertheless permits humanity to turn its back on Him. This shows an extreme respect for free will...
God doesn't respect "free-will" because there is no such thing as "free-will". The natural man's will is bound to sin and evil. Vox is also showing his ignorance of Christianity because his argument is refuted in Romans 1.
Vox is yet another student of the American Religion - the dominant apostate false religion that makes it part of their primary teachings to blaspheme Christ.
Who said we were?
It sounds simple but so long as you don't lose sight of the operative word "Initiation", the philosophies of Christianity and Libertarianism are quite similar.
Libertarians are free to respond to force in their own chosen manner, Christian Libertarians might choose to turn the other cheek. Other Libertarians might choose another path. This does not make either approach more or less Libertarian.
I am a god fearing Christian libertarian not doing crack or alcohol nor a sodomite. You have just called me personally some of the foulest things I've ever heard. Normally when people name call like that, they get banned, but not when they are loutish conservatives.
LOL! I love it! The Libertarian who is an advocate of censorship and banning of speech! Great parody, and thanks for the laugh!
Oh I forgot to include God and prayer banning, pro-abortion, pro-illegal alien and free traitorism as part of the assault on Christian and American values that Libertarians gleefully engage in. Do you also identify yourself with the créche-burning, baby-killing, ten commandment breaking, pro illegal alien, pro-outsourcing, pro American job destroying, evolutionary social desconstructionalists too?
I saw no indication FastCoyote was advocating censorship, rather than making an observation on the behaviour the TaliBornAgain seem to get away with on FR.
Is there any way to believe in government at all without believing this?
So the bottom line in any comparability between Libertarianism and Christianity is that "Libertarianism and Christianity oppose initiation of force against anyone."
Someone better call radio talk show host Neal Boortz, because he is throughally committed to the idea that Christianity, if allowed to blossom in this country, would force everyone to adopt Christian ideals. Judging by the plethora of God hating, Christian bashing Libertarians in the Free Republic alone, who continually express the same unfounded fears, I am seriously wondering if Libertarians are even capable of gathering together to come up with a specific, non contradictory creed. One thing is clear about Libertarianism - they are a universally rebellious people.
Rebellion and Christianity are like oil and water.
So you missed the word "banned". Of course. See No evil, Hear No Evil...
When I see the letters L-I-B-E-R... I know that I am dealing with someone who probably has a social disease but most certainly has a moral and mental disease.
First of all, the "Taliban" characterization. This must be the updated version of Godwin's Law for the Taliban and Christianity have nothing in common, so you must be wanting to sling around the Nazi thing, but settled on this more politically correct and empty headed euphemism.
Second. Libertarianism is rebellion. The philosophy is anti-Christ;, it is basically immoral; it celebrates every form of vice from prostitution, to pornography, to drug abuse, to sodomy; it hates authority and is a kissing fornicating cousin to anarchy.
I know that you folks want to hide the fact that Libertarianism is engaged in an outright jihad against the American culture, wishing to replace it with third world chaos. But when someone like me shines the light of truth on your seditionist intents, you folks do like your bretheren in the Liberal Left and start talking about banning speech. Your cultural deconstructionalism and fast track approach to the formation of a totally depraved fragmented society is just as obvious as the Left's Socialism.
The selfishness and total elimination of a social and moral conscience is apparent, that I lay odds that if I were to get a few Libertarians in a room together and talk about the legal necessity of auto insurance you folks would in short order get into a fist-fight. Some would claim that the insurance mandate is a government/business racket, imposing a costly system of control upon a free people - a few would point out that Thomas Jefferson and all of the other Founding Diests never imposed an insurance system on horses and buggies and thus a freedom loving people shouldn't have it either. Then another group would say that not having insurance imposes a fraud on the rest and that through a Libertarian endorsed system of Prior Restraint, and a legal precedence for "Presumption of Guilt" everyone should be required by the police powers of the State to have compulsory auto insurance. Of course, there would be even more goof-ball rhetoric as each person was trying to rationalize his or her own personal wants and needs and how to impose his or her beliefs on everyone else.
That's why I love you people. Just like a mother can love her toddler composing a symphony in the kitchen by banging pots and pans.
I didn't call for censorship, just hoping I will be allowed to call you the same foul mouthed things you call me - with impunity. Trust me, I can point out just as many unsavory things about your position as you've tried to do to me.
Oh I forgot to include God and prayer banning,
Let's see, the Ten Commandments were just removed not by Libertarians but by a Democrat federal judge under a Republican president. Libertarians don't have a real problem with school prayer as long as it isn't coerced. I guess this was an example of you lying.
pro-abortion,
I guess that would be like upstanding Republicans Rudi Giulanni and Arnold Schwarzenegger. But I am actually anti-abortion, and certainly no Libertarian would government fund Planned Parenthood and the UNs abortions planning, so once again you are a distorting facts.
pro-illegal alien
a lot of Republicans hire illegals, and President Bush is soft on the problem, so speak for your self. Not all Libertarians believe in unrestricted immigration and they certainly don't buy illegal votes like the Democrats
free traitorism as part of the assault on Christian and American values that Libertarians gleefully engage in. Do you also identify yourself with the créche-burning, baby-killing, ten commandment breaking, pro illegal alien, pro-outsourcing, pro American job destroying, evolutionary social desconstructionalists too?
I don't have time to pick apart the rest of your wild rant, but readers should be aware that on another thread the Dr. believes dinosaurs existed within the last ten thousand years. So, I think everyone can judge who has their panties in a bunch.
Nope. but I saw FastCoyote's words:
Normally when people name call like that, they get banned, but not when they are loutish conservatives.
as an observation, not a recommendation.
Libertarianism is rebellion.
and Islam is submission. (if you want to know the association my mind came up with.)
Is this true, Warmoose? Are you one of them 4004 B.C. types?
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