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Forging a case for U.S. jobs in manufacturing
The Arizona Republic ^ | August 24, 2003 | Jon Talton

Posted on 08/24/2003 9:55:53 AM PDT by sarcasm

Edited on 05/07/2004 5:21:33 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Does it matter if Americans make stuff?

I'm using Alan Greenspan's brushoff term for American manufacturing. He used it last month during his congressional testimony, when asked about the loss of 2.7 million jobs over the past two years, most in factories and they're likely gone for good.


(Excerpt) Read more at azcentral.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
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To: jpsb
I am going to bookmark this thread am I am going to let everyone know that Dane is a register democrat. I always knew you were a fake but I can't believe you were so foolish to admit to being a RAT

Go right ahead. Like I said before the area I live in is an area that is heavily democrat. The only real action in the local primaries is on the democrat ballot, the Pubbie runs mostly unopposed in the primary. Also in the last two elections the democrat representative who represents my area has run unopposed in the primary and general election.

That hasn't stopped me from voting Pubbie in every Presidential election that I have voted in or registering as Republican in araea where the Republican party is stronger.

I have to face the fact where I live now, the only voice especially in local elections is to register as a demo to have a voice in local primaries.

61 posted on 08/24/2003 5:55:47 PM PDT by Dane
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To: expat_panama
Sorry, but you are incorrect. If we as a nation are forced to fight for our survival we will need ships and planes and tanks and bullets. If we can not build them we will be defeated and enslaved. Not rocket science.
62 posted on 08/24/2003 5:57:55 PM PDT by jpsb
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To: Dane
Dane I live in a similar area and I am regiestered as a Republican, you are a regestered RAT, you have ZERO credability with me. Go to the DU with all the other RATS.
63 posted on 08/24/2003 6:02:31 PM PDT by jpsb
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To: A. Pole
yea, and the sad thing is the free traders buy into this BS.
64 posted on 08/24/2003 6:06:54 PM PDT by jpsb
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To: expat_panama
This is an emotional issue - and when people get upset they call for big government to bail them out with high import taxes so as to redistribute our hard earned wealth to those unwilling to compete in the marketplace.

Wouldn't our current balance of trade deficit with China, India, Mexico, everyone, qualify as the redistribution of our American wealth to those people? Personally, if wealth is to be redistributed (and it must be if there is to be an economy), I would rather see it redistributed to other Americans who will eventually, again, redistribute it to still other Americans than have it sent to foreign countries who will probably never send it back here to the American worker. The American worker: You know, the one that gave the money value in the first place.

65 posted on 08/24/2003 6:11:16 PM PDT by templar
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To: jpsb
Dane I live in a similar area and I am regiestered as a Republican, you are a regestered RAT, you have ZERO credability with me. Go to the DU with all the other RATS

Yeah whatever, at least I am honest about my predicament. To have a voice in local primaries, unfortunately, in my area one has to be registered as a dem, and there is no crossover in my state to vote in state and local primaries, which is a good thing, IMO, looked what happened during the Michigan Republican primary in 2000.

And if your "ridicule" is my cross to bear for my present electoral predicament, so be it. I can survive your gnat like ridicule.

66 posted on 08/24/2003 6:13:30 PM PDT by Dane
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To: cp124
This this service economy is great.

Don't I recall something by Reagan about the service economy meaning we will all make our living by taking in each others laundry?

67 posted on 08/24/2003 6:14:23 PM PDT by templar
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To: sarcasm
BTW, for all the Canada bashers here, I'd like to point out that we are one of your best trading partners whom you have a free trade agreement with. Canadians buy a lot of US-manufactured products. Just fr'instance, as I sit hit I'm drinking a Pepsi (made in Canada but profits go to US) with a bottle of Frank's RedHot sauce (imported from the US) sitting beside it, with book cases full of books and magazines printed in the US, CDs produced and manufactured in the US, and my Nissan Sentra was made in Smyrna, Tenessee (did I spell that right?). I work for a US company in the software industry, and I'm paid a wage which while not quite as high as in the Silicon Valley, is not inconsiderable.

Anyway, just wanted to point out an example of how free trade should work.
68 posted on 08/24/2003 6:25:46 PM PDT by -YYZ- (This message has been brought to you by the voice of reason, which nobody wants to hear)
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To: A. Pole

When Free Traders rave about Reagan being a free trader, they leave out the fact that the Dept of Tresury during 85, set up a massive devaluation of the dollar, causing it to go down 50% against the yen, 25-35% against European currencies, so it was in effect, a de facto tariff. Of course under Rubinomics of the 90s, the policy was a illrationally strong dollar, a policy that WSJ editorial page whore Paul O Neil continued that amounts to a economic time bomb.

Here is a assignmnet, and hate to say my web surfing skills are not up to par since I have tried to get this info on line. Compare the median(not average) income to the median price of a home and track that to the median price of a college education, compared 1960, 1985 and now.
69 posted on 08/24/2003 6:32:56 PM PDT by JNB
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To: sarcasm; Dane
Now for the actual facts which I have reviewed with Dane before. Ronald Reagan had tariffs raised and quotas put in place on Japanese automobiles coming to the USA. ronald Reagan was a "Free Trader" The way I am a "Free Trader" in that he generally supported Free Trade as defined by Adam Smith. That is tariffs are to be used to protect national defense industries, as retaliation or revenge, to foster industry and "to crack open markets.

Dane - we have been through this before if you had read sufficiently on Ronald Reagan you would know this for fact. If you had read his speeches and full statements you would not be saying he was a globalist style Free trader who belived in unilaterally lowering American tariffs. I further note it was not Ronald Reagan who signed off on NAFTA or GATT though clearly if he had wante dan end to American Tariffs unilaterally he could have proposed that and probably gotten it through Congress without much fuss muss or hassle.

Now I have reviewed the posts on this thread Dane and your first post to it was abusive and you have gotten more vitrioloic since. Now I have been trying to get away from any flames and I am not flaming you here. I have abjured the word "traitor" unless and until someone clearly states they would willingly trade with an enemy of the USA in time of war because all laws that interfere with the right to trade with anyone free of interference are an infringement on their natural rights. Now, Dane, you have not to my knowledge made any such statement.

In any case, Dane, you really should be concerned with civilly discussing issues and not trying to engage in heated rhetoric where you are misstating facts. I have provided you with accurate history and if you were to review Dinesh DeSouza's(sp?) works you would undertand that already.

70 posted on 08/24/2003 6:41:16 PM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: A. Pole
Congratulations! I guess so long as you and me are doing fine the rest can go to hell?

Maybe in your world, but not in mine.

You need to lose the liberal mindset that says being positive in life is the same as telling the rest of the world to go to hell.
It's pathetic.

71 posted on 08/24/2003 6:49:24 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: harpseal; sarcasm
In any case, Dane, you really should be concerned with civilly discussing issues and not trying to engage in heated rhetoric where you are misstating facts

Huh I just brought up the fact that the article sarcasm posted praises Fritz Hollings.

I call that desperation from the doom and gloom side.

If that is being absuvie, then so be it. I call it giving my opinion.

72 posted on 08/24/2003 6:50:26 PM PDT by Dane
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To: Dane
You must be proud that your fellow Democrat, Bill Clinton, was a supporter of "free trade" and supported both NAFTA and GATT.
73 posted on 08/24/2003 6:57:21 PM PDT by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
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To: harpseal
Proposed concept behind NAFTA in 1979

Reagan himself was a dreamer, capable of imagining a world without trade barriers. In announcing his presidential candidacy in Nov. 1979, he had proposed a “North American accord” in which commerce & people would move freely across the borders of Canada & Mexico. This idea, largely overlooked or dismissed as a campaign gimmick in the US, rankled nationalist sensibilities in the neighboring nations. But Reagan was serious in his proposal. Though he traveled only once outside the North American continent during his first 57 years, he was neither insular nor isolationist. California has windows to the world in Asia, and Reagan thought of the US as a Pacific power as well as an Atlantic one. He also had a Californian’s consciousness of Mexico and an actor’s appreciation of Canadians, who are well-represented in the film community. The dream of a North American accord would drive the successful pursuit of a US-Canadian free trade agreement and a future-oriented “framework” trade agreement with Mexico

Issues2000.org

74 posted on 08/24/2003 6:57:30 PM PDT by Dane
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To: William Terrell
Unfortunately, all those service jobs which have become the backbone of our economy depend totally on physical objects, which are manufactured somewhere. It would be better if that somewhere were here.

I'de say that depends on the product being manufactured.

People complained about mechanical production replacing human labor, but in the long run it meant products were manufactured more efficiently at a lower cost resulting a higher standard of living for all.

So what if the slave labor wages in China mean some low tech manufacturing jobs go there. It frees up Americans for better paying high tech jobs, and the low price China products raise our standard of living. Just like we had our own slaves.

75 posted on 08/24/2003 7:04:35 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: sarcasm
You must be proud that your fellow Democrat, Bill Clinton, was a supporter of "free trade" and supported both NAFTA and GATT

Rush Limbaugh has stated many times he agreed with Clinton about NAFTA and GATT.

BTW, as I have explained many times before on this thread in my area one has to register as a dem. I try to vote in every election and unfortunately in my area to have a say in the local primaries one must register as a dem. If I move to anther area, I will take a look at the local political scene and rules(such as crossover voting) and register accordingly, and vote the vast majority of the time for the Pubbie cnadidate.

But like I also said before, if my local electoral predicament is my cross to bear, so be it. I can survive your kneejerk ridicule also.

76 posted on 08/24/2003 7:06:15 PM PDT by Dane
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To: Dane
I live in New York City and I'm a registered Republican - your excuses don't wash.

Am I supposed to be impressed by your argument that Rush Limbaugh and Bill Clinton supported NAFTA and GATT? Do you have a mind of your own?

77 posted on 08/24/2003 7:12:44 PM PDT by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
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To: Dane
At least now that you admit you are a democrat, I understand why you use Charlie Rangel's talking points on the WOD threads. It all makes sense now.
78 posted on 08/24/2003 7:13:55 PM PDT by dogbyte12
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To: sarcasm
I live in New York City and I'm a registered Republican - your excuses don't wash

Gee, I don't live in New York City. I live in a semi-rural county, where demos have always had a strong hold and people know each other and in the local elections it is more voting for the person rather than the party. The d is more a formality, although the R's are trying to get a foothold. We have a Republican sheriff, who I voted for, but he ran unopposed in the Pubbie primary, while the demo primary had IIRC something like 3 candidates. In the demo primary, I voted for the most conservative person, thus helping to try to assure two good candidates in the general election. Also you wouldn't believe the dearth of Pubbie candidates on the local ballot.

But thank you for your New York City centric arrogance, anyway.

79 posted on 08/24/2003 7:21:00 PM PDT by Dane
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To: Dane
More excuses.
80 posted on 08/24/2003 7:23:28 PM PDT by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
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