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To: mountaineer
This person's decision to support herself through criminal activity is what exposes her to physical risk. She should change that now.

I'm sure this thread will provoke a lot of chest-thumping about perverts and gays but it needs to be recognized that some people are not clearly male or female at birth. Sometimes the confusion is physical structure, sometimes it is psychological but it is real, rare but real. We are not all neatly divided into two groups. Once you actually know someone who is in this middle state and come to understand their situation you realize how lucky you are to be "normal".

13 posted on 08/22/2003 6:22:14 AM PDT by muir_redwoods
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To: muir_redwoods
This person's decision to support herself through criminal activity is what exposes her to physical risk.

True, and getting beaten up is only part of the risk, unless STDs have been eliminated.

18 posted on 08/22/2003 6:29:47 AM PDT by mountaineer
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To: muir_redwoods
What are the statistics of people actually BORN that are "clearly not either" as you say????

Because in NATURE it is very very RARE indeed.

So I'm interested in your PROOF.
22 posted on 08/22/2003 6:31:58 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: muir_redwoods
I'm sure this thread will provoke a lot of chest-thumping about perverts and gays but it needs to be recognized that some people are not clearly male or female at birth.

Oh, come on. How many "transgenders" are actual hermaphrodites? I'll bet it appears in that lifestyle as rarely as it does in the general population.

The vast majority of them are FULLY male or female. The problem is in their heads. And yes, I'm very lucky not to be as mentally ill and full of self-hatred as they.

I have never been mean to one of them, and I feel sorry for them, but not to the point of advocating that we should play along with and support their illusions, publicly fund their genital mutilations and plastic surgery, build bathrooms just for them, or enact laws that would allow them to sue me if, for example, I had refused to hire one of them to work in the boutique I once managed-- an upscale place selling lingerie to REAL women, not developmentally-arrested boyfreaks playing dress-up.

30 posted on 08/22/2003 6:40:46 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: muir_redwoods
I'm sure this thread will provoke a lot of chest-thumping about perverts and gays but it needs to be recognized that some people are not clearly male or female at birth. Sometimes the confusion is physical structure, sometimes it is psychological but it is real, rare but real. We are not all neatly divided into two groups. Once you actually know someone who is in this middle state and come to understand their situation you realize how lucky you are to be "normal".

My folks were artists, and being brought up by them, I was always exposed to certain communities and lifestyles. So I have always had all kinds of friends.

But my friends are honest people.

To resort to "Bait and Switch" to get a date or to make a sale is something that I find repulsive to the extreme, and I cannot find a shred of compassion for people who do this, because they KNOW, better than anyone else, how the general society feels about things.

If someone is Gay, Straight, etc., fine. But leave me out of it. Just as I do not inflict me straightness and what I do at home on other people, I demand the same courtesy. And this includes Truth in Self-Labelling. If someone tells me they are transgendered, I'll just shrug, because I _don't care_. If they tell me they are one thing or another in order to date me, all bets are off. And I am sure most know this.

It is no less depicable than a garbage collector in a singles scene who claims they are a senior partner in a law firm, or a brain surgeon: It is dishonest. And sometimes, people who are deceived get angry, and everyone knows this, as well.

Anyway, that's how I see it. Your mileage may vary...

32 posted on 08/22/2003 6:42:49 AM PDT by Gorzaloon (Contents may have settled during shipping, but this tagline contains the stated product weight.)
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To: muir_redwoods
And some people are born alcholics that does not mean we should make it easy for them to drink.. You are right about one thing but for the grace of God..
41 posted on 08/22/2003 7:39:47 AM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: muir_redwoods
Sometimes the confusion is physical structure, sometimes it is psychological but it is real, rare but real. We are not all neatly divided into two groups. Once you actually know someone who is in this middle state and come to understand their situation you realize how lucky you are to be "normal"

If it has two X chromosomes it's a woman. If it has one X and one Y its a man. In very rare cases you'll have XXY or XXXXXXY but the presence of a Y chromosome means it's a male. (Standard Olympic rules)

Birth defects of the genitalia do occur but that doesn't change the maleness of the unfortunate with the defect

43 posted on 08/22/2003 8:48:45 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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