Beyond fight-or-flight (Ten Commandments/Judge Moore)

TownHall.com ^ | 8/21/03 | Marvin Olasky

[kattracks]

Say what you will about Roy Moore of the Alabama Supreme Court, he does know how to restart a vital national debate that had been stalled. Facing head-on the problems inherent in removing reverence from public spaces, two years ago he dropped into the rotunda of the Alabama Judicial Building in downtown Montgomery a two-and-a-half ton block of granite topped by an etched copy of the Ten Commandments.

Alabama citizens who elected him chief justice in 2000 knew what they were getting. He kicked off his campaign in the local courtroom where he had hung a plaque of the Ten Commandments. He ran on the publicity he had gained by successfully defying a judicial order to remove the plaque (which he had carved himself) from his courtroom.

In an age of bland politicians, Moore is willing to stand firm and speak out. If other officials were also willing to be bold, voters who value courage would not be so excited by movie actors who display special effects heroism. So it's no surprise that many national talk show guests are hyperventilating about Moore and many editorial pages are ablaze.

Meanwhile, some evangelicals are siding with Moore out of appreciation for his guts, and others are fleeing from him, less they be seen by secular neighbors as fundamentalists trying to drop heavy-handed religious beliefs on others like cartoon characters drop anvils on their pursuers. Frequently lost amid the fight-or-flight reactions are the specific arguments.

Here are matters to keep in mind: The American founders and their successors clearly felt free to depart from the particular civic statutes of ancient Israel, but they largely based our legal system on biblical moral law, so there's nothing heinous with showcasing the most famous statement of that moral law.

Almost all Alabama citizens recognize the Ten Commandments as something special, and displaying them (as opposed to a cross or a passage from the book of Romans) is largely inclusive, since Jews and Muslims -- as well as Christians -- revere the words from chapter 20 of Exodus.

Furthermore, the First Amendment was designed not to keep state rotundas Bible-free but to keep the federal government from establishing a denomination (like the Episcopalians) as the preferred group to which state-required taxes and tithes had to flow. Even with that amendment now applied to states through the 14th amendment, no one is alleging that Moore in his court decisions has replaced Alabama state law with Leviticus, or that those who do not honor the Ten Commandments are silenced in his courtroom.

And yet, questions abound about the wisdom of setting up an in-your-face monument. Christianity is sometimes mistakenly seen as a religion of legalism rather than one centered on warm-hearted but tough-minded compassion -- so Christians often must think through how best to communicate, in the words of Psalm 19, that the rules of the Lord are sweeter than honey. Questions should ask include: How does a particular action further the gospel? What does it teach nonbelievers about God? Is it likely to draw them in or alienate them?

If Moore is criticized for waving a red cloak at federal judges, U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson should also be faulted for acting like a bull and ordering the $5,000-per-day fines. Must a federal court automatically boss around a state Supreme Court? Shouldn't there be mutual respect and patience, until issues that cannot be resolved are eventually settled by the U.S. Supreme Court? But now that the feds have been aggressive, should Christians respond with belligerence?

Daniel in the Bible had no choice but to continue praying to God in his home when Babylon's king outlawed such prayer. Daniel, however, did not pray in front of the king's palace. Are the feds telling Moore that he cannot speak of his faith, in which case he has no choice but to stand firm? Or are they offering harassment but not persecution? In that case, a gentle response might better serve the cause of Christ.

Marvin Olasky is Editor of WORLD magazine, a TownHall.com member group.

©2003 Creators Syndicate, Inc.

Contact Marvin Olasky | Read Olasky's biography

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

The voter is King. The judge is our servant. Forget that, and submit to tyranny.

[Russell Scott]

It's absolutely astonishing that we go out of our way not to attack religious symbols in Iraq (even if they are havens for terrorists who are killing American soldiers everyday), but threaten to throw an elected judge into prison for displaying the Ten Commandments.

I'm going to say this as loud and clear as I can President Bush. If you allow this to stand, then expect another tragic 9/11 style terrorist attack on our soil. Only God can protect a free nation from terrorist, unless we become an armed camp. The greatest thing you can do President Bush in the war on terror is to honor God, and His Son Jesus, and He will make sure the terrorist act like blithering idiots, making them easy to catch by our law enforcement officials. If you do not support Judge Moore in his righteous stance, expect much more tragedy at home and abroad, as God allows our enemies to make a mockery of us. We are only a great nation when God's blessing and protection is upon us. Don't get cocky and arrogant by refusing to honor God and His servants like Judge Moore publicly!

[Tom D.]

I am sorry to disagree with a large number of you, but Justice Moore's only honorable alternative is to resign his office as Alabama Supreme Court Justice. While I believe that the Federal District Court and 11th Circuit Court of Appeals were wrong in ordering the removal of this statute, and that the U.S. Supreme Court was wrong in refusing to hear the case, under our law, which Justice Moore is sworn to uphold, for good or for ill, the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals trumps the Alabama Supreme Court.

I have little doubt that Justice Moore would have little trouble in ruling against a lower Alabama trial court judge who refused to honor the Alabama Supreme Court's rulings as a matter of concience.

This is certainly not to say that Justice Moore should resign in disgrace; in fact, he should resign as a point of honor. Some smart guy, whose name escapes me, said something to the effect that when a person is cought in a situation where the duties of his office require that he do something that is contrary to his duties to his God, his only honorable route is to resign his office.

Every judge is subject to the rulings of higher courts. I agree with most of you that Federal Courts should not be telling State Courts what to do in this situation, but unfortunately, our United States Supreme Court has disagreed with us and until that line of cases is reversed, we are stuck with it.

[SLB]

The voter is King. The judge is our servant. Forget that, and submit to tyranny.

It seems to me this has already happened. We live in a time of court imposed tyranny. When and how will we stand up to them. Judge Moore has and where has it gotten him. Christians have to remember what Christ did to the money changers in the temple. We are constantly talking of simply turning the other cheek. The time is here for more direct action.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

"When and how will we stand up to them. Judge Moore has and where has it gotten him?"

The judges must submit to the Constitution. If they fail to do so, then it is our duty to bring them down. It will not be easy. But that is exactly why they are thinking of themselves as our masters.

I propose we amend the Constitution.

At the top of my head, here is what it might be like: that congress MUST hold at LEAST one impeachment vote every year, and that the first impeachment vote needs only a majority vote by the House and a majority vote by the senate to remove a judge. But the vote must be made on the basis of a constitutional misinterpretation. If the Supreme Court unanymously disagrees with the House and Senate on the constitutional argument, then a 2/3rds vote is required by the senate to remove that judge. This should be enough to remind the justices what their job is, without taking away too much of their detachment from politics. A careful balance is required. We don't want judges to be mere wind checkers and poll watchers. But at the same time, they have become far too arrogant and agenda-driven.

We don't know where it will get Moore when the dust settles. Nor does Moore. I think he has his eyes on the prize: beyond this life.

A few of us, a pitiful few, are standing up to the Federal judges by protesting with Keyes. It is a mere spark. But so was Lexington and Concord-- just a minor skirmish. If enough people support them, we make it clear to the Republicans that we demand change. If we turn our backs on them and belittle them, then we make it clear that we don't care. It is up to us. The tide sometimes starts in this forum. Right here. So far, it's been turbulence. "Respect the law!" they say. But WE are the law. Those black robed bullies are mere servants. Their only job is to interpret the law-- not create it. We must defy them. We must turn our wrath on THEM, not on Moore. FReegards....

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

You make a good point. Up to now, people have been praying for a safe nation. Now peoples' prayers are being directed to different places. I believe Jesus when He talks about faith. In that pragmatic view alone, it would be wise of Bush on a mystical level to help Moore somehow.

[Russell Scott]

Deuteronomy 30
2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
7 And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.

[wgeorge2001]

"Myron Thompson should also be faulted for acting like a bull and ordering the $5,000-per-day fines. Must a federal court automatically boss around a state Supreme Court? Shouldn't there be mutual respect and patience, until issues that cannot be resolved are eventually settled by the U.S. Supreme Court? But now that the feds have been aggressive, should Christians respond with belligerence?"


Myron(Myron?) Thompson is a TYPICAL secualar humanist athiest liberal who is bent on destroying Christianity from the face of the earth; as are all those who indulge their bodies and minds in carnal pursuits and pleasures and take pleasure in others who do the same; this is his personal choice BUT the demonic leftist hatred of Christians is, as Judge Roy Moore stated on a talk show the other night, a hatred of the LORD GOD's FIRST COMMANDMENT, Thou shalt not have any other god's before me.
Therefore this unjust judge, with the A.C.L.U.(American Communist and Liberals United), has violated the first amendment of the constitution and will continue to do so as long as the silly supreme court judges run and hide behind their silly robes.
Christians are now disenfranchised in the American legal system by unjust and foolish secular judges and liberal people, whose forefather's have prospered under the former Christian government of America and enjoyed all the liberties of a merciful,magnonimous,just and loving God and His Christ, the LORD of Hosts is his name.This is the beginning of sorrows for America I believe and will cause the destabilization of America's and world wide governments that once looked to America as a guiding light; that light being Jesus Christ.
The other issue here is state rights. The federal government is controlled by despicable left wing humanists who have no respect for life,liberty, or the pusuit of happiness under the Creator God,Jesus Christ, and will now begin hostile takeover over all state governments using the minions of the demonic left; the democrat party.
I was saddened yesterday after reading about the failure of the Supreme Court to correctly interpret the once hallowed freedom protecting Constitution. Today, I remember the Lord Jesus Christ and His warnings of latter day world wide trouble's and sorrows.

[Guenevere]

Very disappointed I am in Marvin Olasky today....after reading this.

And I subscribe to World..magazine!!

Marvin, how could you???

An 'in your face'...on Moore's part?????

Marvin, are you aware that every 'monument' to God at every level is systematically being torn away from our culture.....

..but all kinds of monument to 'man' is most desired!!!

Please rethink this!

[NoControllingLegalAuthority]

The judges must submit to the Constitution.

Even the U.S. Supreme Court has urinated on the Constitution. They see things in it not there. They overlook things clearly written in it.

There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution requiring public places be stripped of any religious symbols or writing. Judges have been making that up for years. The only thing required is that no state religion be established.

Unelected judges in this country have seized power not theirs and have become a tyranny unto themselves and are destroying our guaranteed representation in the election process by making up law out of whole cloth.

We are justified in our contempt of the runaway judiciary.

[rebel]

You wrote, "our United States Supreme Court has disagreed with us and until that line of cases is reversed, we are stuck with it."

Tell me, is there any decision that the "Supreme" Court would issue that you would disregard as illegal?

Oh! I know that answer! When they say I can't pray or worship then I'll know they have stepped over the line and that one I'll disobey.

This is so discouraging. This once great nation favors the sexually deviant over Almighty God. Right is wrong and wrong is right.

This nation deserves what is coming to it.

[Tom D.]

You apparently misunderstand: Some Supreme Court Justice (O. W. Holmes I believe) said, "We are not final because we are always right; we are always right because we are final." There are many U.S. Supreme Court cases that I think were wrongly decided. The U.S. Supreme Court the same thing because it has been known to reverse itself, but that is not the point.

Justice Moore has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States. Part of that Constitution requires that he give deference to rulings of higher courts. I dare say that the doctrine that the U.S. Supreme Court trumps state courts in matters of U.S. Constitutional interpretation was well established when Justice Moore took that oath.

Now Justice Moore is faced with the dilemma of violating his oath of office or of violating his religous principals. That is an untenable position. His only way out of this problem without compromising either his oath of office or his religous beliefs is to resign his seat.

Your position appears to be that it is ok to violate his oath of office so long as you agree with his reasons. A good judge simply cannot do that. Much of our complaints with the Courts is that they have let their ideas of how things should run trump their consitutional obligations to faithfully follow the U.S. Constitution.

[Catspaw]

If Moore is criticized for waving a red cloak at federal judges, U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson should also be faulted for acting like a bull and ordering the $5,000-per-day fines.

Um, Judge Thompson hasn't ordered $5000 a day fines yet.

In his injunction, Thompson proposed $5000 a day fines, doubling each week, IF Chief Judge Moore is held in contempt.

[Tribune7]

11th Circuit Court of Appeals trumps the Alabama Supreme Court.

Says the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Federal law does not automatically trump state law. The case is being made that this is a violation of the First Amendment and hence a federal matter. That's bogus and Judge Moore should stick to his guns.

[jimt]

Judge Moore needs to stop using the courthouse for proselytizing and go back to doing the job he holds. His job is not chief evangelist. His job is chief justice of the supreme court - a secular position.

[Squantos]

"It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated
seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator
and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt,
molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for
worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of
his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments;
provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others
in their religious worship." --John Adams


Having scanned my little cato pocket copy of the constitution I carry for any reference to seperation of church and state I am confused by this effort to remove all reference to God in our Judicial, Executive and Legislative branches of goobermint and even in our places of business. No where in the constitution can I find such a rule, law or suggestion.

But I can clearly see thru the writings of our founders their intent to keep religion a major part of our society both official and private. I have shaken the cages of my congress critters this AM both on the phone and followed up with a letter on the same subject. My local polidiots stand behind Judge Moore alledgedly.

No doubt had this plaque been a " same sex how to " prose it would be protected with a US marshal standing guard over it 24/7. Funny that the same congressional process that will allow the removal of this reference is started with a prayer each day.......


Stay Safe

[Squantos]

An Old Cherokee describes an experience going on
inside himself....
"It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves.
One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret,
greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment,
inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope,
serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy,
generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. This same
fight is going on inside you - and inside every
other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then
asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."


Stay Safe ...........

[LiteKeeper]

SPOTREP