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Carelessness and Casualness in worship
The Middletown Bible Church ^ | 08/19/03 | various authors

Posted on 08/19/2003 7:56:34 PM PDT by RaceBannon

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To: nmh
It's sheer laziness and disrespect to God.

It is precisely this kind of thing which keeps people away from church. You are going to worship, are you not? That has nothing to do with what other people are wearing.

If people are being disrespectful toward God, God knows it and he'll deal with that as he sees fit.

41 posted on 08/19/2003 11:39:31 PM PDT by Dianna
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To: RaceBannon
A lot of this sounds like unsavory pridefulness on the part of the pastor.

In my experience, the more persnickety a minister is about clothing, the more likely he is to be a pompous blowhard who is in love with the sound of his own voice.

-ccm

42 posted on 08/20/2003 12:07:38 AM PDT by ccmay
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To: ccmay
Seems like everyone's missing the point, which is SPIRITUAL, not NATURAL.

The author, IMO, is saying that a fear of the Lord is being lost into a permanent casualness. While we're adopted in as children of God, reverence wasn't meant to go out the window. We're talking about the primary purpose of our being -- to worship the Almighty God, Maker of heaven and earth! Amen.

The symptom is the clothes....but not to draw a judgement on any individual (who may not have enough money for a suit, who is new to the Faith, who is homeless, who is etc...). Do you all understand the difference between recognizing a heart attitude symptom vs judging individuals for what they wear to church?

A book I recommend is: "How to Worship Jesus Christ" by Joseph S. Carroll (foreword by John F. MacArthur Jr). It's excellent, and isn't long. I loved it so much I gave away about 80 of them, then taught a Bible study with it.

43 posted on 08/20/2003 12:25:26 AM PDT by bets
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To: moyden2000
The Way We Dress Should Show That We Honor the Lord!

No, the way we live should show that we honor the Lord!

I did the "Sunday Best" thing growing up and all it did was turn church into a fashion show, which in turn became a way to judge peoples' means (i.e., how much money they had), which in turn led to treating rich people with more respect than poor people, which is conduct that displeases God.

44 posted on 08/20/2003 2:51:10 AM PDT by fightinJAG
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To: moyden2000
God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about Him."

And how is this verse about dress?

God looks on the heart. The right fear and reverence of God is not shown in dressing up in worldly finery, but in worshipping (literally, "drawing near to Him [in our hearts] and bowing down") Him in spirit (that is, spiritually, or in our hearts) and truth (that is, in fact, or in how we live.)

For a history of the "Sunday Best" clothes tradition, see Frank Viola's book "Pagan Christianity."

45 posted on 08/20/2003 2:57:34 AM PDT by fightinJAG
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To: moyden2000
Basically you dressed up because you were going to see God.

This is how I grew up, too.

But as I grew up in the Lord, I realized this whole idea not only was incorrect, it does terrible damage to the witness of believers to the world.

God is not in a church building, he is in us, his people.

Those searching for Him, and even those not searching, are hindered when they pick up the idea that you have to go to a certain place and wear certain clothes and sing certain songs before you can figure out who God is and what his plans are.

46 posted on 08/20/2003 3:04:43 AM PDT by fightinJAG
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To: Joe Bonforte
hahahahahah
47 posted on 08/20/2003 3:08:07 AM PDT by fightinJAG
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To: Quix
IMHO, your HO is spot on.

God is concerned with the heart.
48 posted on 08/20/2003 3:10:19 AM PDT by fightinJAG
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To: RaceBannon
I would bet that 99% of the people reading this would put on a shirt and tie to have dinner at the White House with GWB.

All that proves is that they are not social morons and that they care about what people think of them. Oops.

Doesn't say a darn thing about what they think in their hearts about GWB, and dressing up for "church" doesn't say a darn thing about whether individuals fear and reverence God in their hearts, which is what matters to Him.

49 posted on 08/20/2003 3:14:31 AM PDT by fightinJAG
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To: RaceBannon
Yet, I am afraid that less than 30% would wear a shirt and tie to stand before a Holy God in worship on Sunday.Well, I'm standing before God 24/7 and am concerned about whether I am clothed in righteousness, not about what's on the outside.
50 posted on 08/20/2003 3:17:36 AM PDT by fightinJAG
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To: Graybeard58
amen.
51 posted on 08/20/2003 3:21:20 AM PDT by fightinJAG
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To: Graybeard58
((prayers for your son))
52 posted on 08/20/2003 3:23:36 AM PDT by fightinJAG
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To: Dianna
amen!
53 posted on 08/20/2003 3:24:37 AM PDT by fightinJAG
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To: ccmay
A lot of this sounds like unsavory pridefulness on the part of the pastor.

In my experience, the more persnickety a minister is about clothing, the more likely he is to be a pompous blowhard who is in love with the sound of his own voice.

Bears repeating again and again.

54 posted on 08/20/2003 3:26:09 AM PDT by fightinJAG
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To: RaceBannon
27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. Matthew 23

8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings.
Colossians 2

55 posted on 08/20/2003 3:54:20 AM PDT by mongrel
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To: RaceBannon
Bump to read later. I dress up to go to church because that makes the Baptists happy and since I own nice clothes for work, it isn’t that big a deal. But I would rather dress casually because Sunday is my day of rest. And if Jesus himself showed up in the flesh, I’d run home and wrap myself in garbage bags and duct tape and throw some garden mulch in my hair on my way back. The churches are full of well-dressed people who are on their way to hell. I don’t kid myself that my nice clothes make me a better Christian.

As for music, well based on what I’ve heard at my church, we should all be exclusively singing 19th century hymns, just like the disciples did </roll eyes>

56 posted on 08/20/2003 4:24:45 AM PDT by meowmeow
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To: RaceBannon
I agree with this. I don't see it as an exhortation to "dress up" at all. The subject is people who deliberately dress down.

Clean, modest, and relatively somber is what's appropriate for church, regardless of income level. It is as inappropriate to show up in shorts and flip-flops as it is to decide that the congregation really needs to see all your diamond jewelry. Both are not-so-great attitudes to bring to church, IMO. The latter says "worldliness is important", the former says "nothing is important".

57 posted on 08/20/2003 4:28:27 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: RaceBannon
THE MISSING INGREDIENT Whatever characterizes the religious attitude of our day, it is not reverence and awe. Rarely can one enter a church today, where the hustled silence in the atmosphere makes one conscious of the presence of Him who is a "consuming fire." The head bowed "waiting in silence for God only," the tuning of the heart, the tremulous expectancy have gone out of worship. A babble of voices and a discussion of trivial affairs is not an atmosphere conducive to doing business with the living God.

Here are some suggestions as you prepare for the worship service: 1. Remember that when the organ begins playing the prelude, God's people are to be silent. There is to be a "holy hush" as believers prepare their hearts to meet a holy God. Refrain from talking and chatting with your pew neighbor so that your mind will be centered on the Lord rather than on self and others. 2. The moments may be used for silent prayer—remembering yourself and your own heart attitude, the Pastor, the choir and the other worshippers. 3. The moments may be used for prayerful meditation—you could think upon a verse of Scripture or you could meditate upon what you learned from the Pastor's last message. 4. Remember the words from Psalm 46:10--"BE STILL, and know that I am God: I WILL BE EXALTED among the heathen, I WILL BE EXALTED in the earth."

The way my church does it (I'm the chief musician and bottle blower there... OK, just kidding about the bottle, so don't blow yer cork) is we have a "silent meditation" after the opening announcements, which in turn follow the prelude. This is the quiet playing of a hymn, maybe 30 seconds. Everybody hushes for this and then we go into the opening hymns.

58 posted on 08/20/2003 4:31:49 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: RaceBannon
Could be. Jesus' "cross wear" described in the Gospels sounds like it was more refined than carpenter's duds, and he wore that to the Passover service of the Last Supper. Holiday and Sabbath wear would, I assume, be similar.

But I'd far sooner see someone wearing blue jeans coming to church, than not coming to church at all because we harangued them about a dress code.
59 posted on 08/20/2003 4:39:26 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: RaceBannon
Do you draw up a scorecard on all these tests for everything you propose to do? Just curious.
60 posted on 08/20/2003 4:41:43 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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