Private property rights? - advice needed to settle a bet

RightFighter

[RightFighter]

I'm just looking for some Freeper advice to help me settle a bet with a friend. Here's the situation:

We go to a church that practices biblical church discipline. The church believes very strongly in this and takes it very seriously, especially in the case of adultery and divorce. Well, recently, we became aware that there is a couple who will soon be getting a divorce. The woman is initiating it, not for infidelity or anything like that, but simply because her husband "doesn't have the same goals" that she does, etc.. Needless to say, she's being asked to leave the church because of this. When a member is expelled like this, church members are told that we are not to fellowship with the expelled member and are simply to pray that they would repent of their sin and return to the body and that we should urge them to do so any time we see them. This is where the argument with my friend comes up.

My friend says that, because the church is regularly open to the public, he doesn't think that it has the right to tell her that she can't come to church there, and that if she wanted to continue to come there, she could do so and the church could do nothing about it.

I say that the church, as a private entity, has every right to tell someone that they are not welcome on the property, and would have the right to have someone arrested for trespassing if they failed to heed such a request.

I would hate for it to ever come to something like that, and I doubt it would, because what church member would WANT to come to a church that doesn't want them there. My friend, however, just doesn't seem to agree with the whole church discipline thing, so he's drawn a line in the sand here with this argument. Who's right??? And can any of you give me any legal case that involved a similar situation that would back it up? Sorry for this whole post, but I tend to a little bit argumentative, and the nature of my relationship with my friend is such that it would be best to clear it up once and for all.

[Grammy]

"...but I tend to a little bit argumentative, and the nature of my relationship with my friend is such that it would be best to clear it up once and for all."

Perhaps the more important point is why are you needing to be right? Which fruit of the Spirit is represented by arguing? 8-)

[NYFriend]

"When a member is expelled like this, church members are told that we are not to fellowship with the expelled member and are simply to pray that they would repent of their sin and return to the body and that we should urge them to do so any time we see them."

How, what do they need to do to get back in?

[hopespringseternal]

This is a favorite tactic of cults.

Nice to know you think the apostle Paul was a cultist.

Episcopalian, perhaps?

[WestPacSailor]

Haha. "Comma"?

It's peculiar comma but you paused when you came to the word "comma", didn't you?

[Agnes Heep]

If the church owns the property and it's not a public accommodation, they're well within their rights to include or exclude anyone they want. Their decisions in that regard may not be "nice," but that's another topic of discussion altogether.

[WestPacSailor]

At the time Paul established his church it WAS considered a cult.

[Eva]

I think that it is very unChristian to expel a sinner. Hate sin, love the sinner.

[alancarp]

This is no more cultish than expelling members from a Country Club for violations of the Club rules: people may be expelled from private property. Church members may be expelled for violations of the oaths of membership.

The Presbyterian Church in America practices this, and while yeah, it is a tough thing: it is a practice of church discipline that is necessary to keep members from engaging in open, public sin that leaves the church open to the charge of overt hypocrasy (and yes, we all sin, and continue to do so to our detrimate, but it is the unrepentant, open sin such as this that harms the church in the public eye, and must be dealt with swiftly.)

[kkindt]

A favorite tactic of cults? It is Scriptural and just. Why should a group of people LEGALLY be required to associate with someone who is not willing to abide by their rules - rules they knew about before they volunarily joined the organization?

Kicking someone out of your organization because they break the rules if typical of baseball, football, businesses fire people, etc, etc. not just cults.

If you mean having nothing to do with someone in respect to not talking to them you miss the point of why the congregation is doing this for this woman. THey will TALK TO HER - they will engage her in coversation BUT ONLY ABOUT THE SINFUL desire she has to divorce her husband for unbiblical reasons.

[lady lawyer]

RightFighter was asking about whether the church had a legal right to do this, not whether we consider it the right thing to do. The church clearly has a right to exclude whom it wishes from its property. Churches are even exempt from most civil rights laws.

As to whether it's right, my church doesn't deal with it that way. A person can be excommunicated or disfellowshipped, but they can still attend. But I don't condemn RightFighter's church for trying another way. In my opinion, this is one of the most difficult conundrums to deal with -- how do you maintain group standards without simply giving up on the person violating the standards? It sounds like RightFighter's church is not completely giving up, and they are trying hard to maintain their standards.

[onedoug]

What kind of church is this where parishioners gamble on who's allowed in?

Maybe you should be concentrating on removing the planks from your own eyes.

[stuartcr]

What is biblical church discipline?

[WestPacSailor]

I think that it is very unChristian to expel a sinner

I agree. However, your question asked CAN a church prevent an "undesirable" from attending. The answer is yes. If you ask SHOULD they, well then, that's another large economy-sized can of worms altogether.

[AppyPappy]

Nice to know you think the apostle Paul was a cultist.

I'm just telling you.

[freebilly]

The church has the right to have someone arrested for trespass, but that's not scriptural behavior. 1 Corinthians 6

1 When one of you has a grievance against a brother, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints?

[AppyPappy]

So what you are saying is that there are no sinners in the PCA? I don't remember Jesus talking about the varying degrees of sin.

[ChewedGum]

Very nicely put.

Gum

[Eva]

I purposely ignored the question of CAN a church expel a member? Of course they can, just like they could expel a drunk or a homeless person, but is that the right thing to do?

[Protagoras]

The church obviously has the moral right to exclude anyone who unrepentantly acts contrary to their beliefs.

I don't think that is what the bible says.

[AppyPappy]

they will engage her in coversation BUT ONLY ABOUT THE SINFUL desire she has to divorce her husband for unbiblical reasons

What about the beam in their eye? Aren't we all sinners who fall short of the glory of God? I can understand condemning divorce from the pulpit and allowing the convicting power of the Holy Spirit to work but I can't see chucking her out to put another sinner in her seat.