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The Return of Pete Rose(Exclusive--He's Back in Baseball in 2004)
baseball prospectus ^ | Aug. 12, 2003 | Derek Zumsteg and Will Carroll

Posted on 08/12/2003 7:28:41 AM PDT by Ray Kinsella

Pete Rose and Major League Baseball have reached an agreement that would allow him to return to baseball in 2004, and includes no admission of wrongdoing by Rose, Baseball Prospectus has learned. According to several sources, Rose signed the agreement after a series of pre-season meetings between Rose, Hall of Fame member Mike Schmidt, and at different times, high-level representatives of Major League Baseball, including Bob DuPuy, Major League Baseball's Chief Operating Officer, and Allan H. "Bud" Selig, Commissioner of Major League Baseball.

The agreement includes removal of Rose from baseball's permanently ineligible list. This would allow Rose to appear on ballots for baseball's Hall of Fame, which bars such banned players from consideration. The agreement allows Rose to be employed by a team in the 2004 season, as long as that position does not involve the day to day operations. That employment restriction would be removed after a year, allowing Rose to return to managing a team as early as the 2005 season if a position is offered to him.

In December, several publications reported that Rose and Bud Selig met in Milwaukee last winter, and that lawyers for both sides were exchanging proposals to end Rose's lifetime ban from baseball. Jayson Stark of ESPN wrote in a column August 7th that Reds owner Carl Lindner intends to hire Rose as the team's manager and has agitated for Rose's reinstatement for some time.

Pete Rose has been banned from baseball since he reached an agreement with then-Commissioner Bart Giamatti that included a lifetime ban from baseball for conduct detrimental to the sport, but which did not include an admission that Rose gambled on baseball. The August 23, 1989 agreement ended the investigation by baseball, led by John Dowd. Dowd's findings are published at www.dowdreport.com. Dowd concluded that Rose had bet on games he was involved in, citing such evidence as telephone records including calls to a bookie from the Reds clubhouse, bank records of large payments, and betting notes that handwriting experts identified as Rose's, which matched records of bookie Ron Peters. Baseball Prospectus has published several articles on the continuing controversy over Rose, including a lengthy evaluation of baseball historian and Boston Red Sox analyst Bill James's criticisms of the Dowd Report. Rose has always denied that he has bet on baseball.

The agreement would secure a place on the Hall of Fame ballot for Rose as his eligibility window closes. Rose played his last season in 1986, and Hall of Fame eligibility rules require that a player appear within 20 years of the end of their playing career. There would be significant barriers to Rose appearing on the 2004 ballot, which would leave only one year of eligibility for election by voters at large. If Rose failed to be elected by a vote, he would have to be selected by the Veterans' Committee.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: baseball; budselig; dishonor; peterose; peterrose; travesty
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To: My Favorite Headache
PR machine in full effect folks...this is baseball cramming for any kind of good PR it can get right now.

Agreed, completely. The thing is their are plenty of good stories right now that MLB could be pushing (have you seen the Marlins and their young crop lately?) to fix their image problems.

21 posted on 08/12/2003 7:41:39 AM PDT by D. Brian Carter
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To: My Favorite Headache
They will point to the fact that 70% of people responding to polls are in favor of it. But who is in the 30 and who is in the 70? What is the point of having 70% favor it if they are "fans" who never attend games? How much of the 30% is part of the true fan base? That shoud be explored I think.
22 posted on 08/12/2003 7:42:16 AM PDT by Ray Kinsella
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To: Ray Kinsella
I never really had a problem with giving Rose HOF eligibility. Letting him back into baseball in an active role is an absolutely horrible idea, assuming that this report is true.
23 posted on 08/12/2003 7:44:03 AM PDT by jpl
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To: Ray Kinsella
Not meaning to be contentious ... but Joe Jackson played left field for the White Sox. If I'm not mistaken ... this info comes from a Bill James Baseball Abstract that I have packed away ... there were two triples hit to left field by the Cincinnati Reds in key situations during the 1919 World Series. In normal circumstances, it is hard ... very hard ... to hit a triple to left field.

In this Abstract piece, James gave a very detailed account, with supporting evidence and documentation, of why Jackson was guilty. The thing about the triples was one of the reasons.

Personally, I think Joe Jackson probably should get a break after all these years ... especially if they let Rose back in. I've always figured that Joe Jackson, who had the intelligence of a retarded amoeba, got taken advantage of in a lot of ways, although bottom line one must take responsibility for his actions.

I just don't think it's accurate to say that he did nothing to throw that series, and if I can find which issue of the Abstract that piece by James is in I'll at least cite the year, there's no way I'm going to type in a three-page article.

24 posted on 08/12/2003 7:45:17 AM PDT by GB
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To: D. Brian Carter
Rose won't even ADMIT he made a mistake. Maybe if he showed a little contrition, I'd have a different point of view, but his arrogance and inability to take responsibility for his actions, on top of what those actions were,

For a second there I thought you were listing his qualifications to be an Episcopal Bishop.

Either way, America slips one notch further...

25 posted on 08/12/2003 7:45:18 AM PDT by LTCJ
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To: 1Old Pro
So did O.J. Granted the severity is much different, but our nation is refusing to enforce any standards at all because we feel "sorry" for the perp. Time heals all wounds and the American sheeple will probably be embracing O.J. within the decade.

You have a valid point and I hope O.J. is never accepted or embraced. However, he gambled on baseball and has served (about 15 years or so) time for his misdeed. It's about time he gets parolled. O.J. gets life for murdering his wife (I know you stated the obvious difference)... but the two aren't even in the same category (to me).

26 posted on 08/12/2003 7:45:34 AM PDT by bedolido (None of us is as dumb as all of us!)
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To: D. Brian Carter
That was too funny......spewed coffee all over the keyboard ! LMAO !!

Stay Safe !

27 posted on 08/12/2003 7:47:08 AM PDT by Squantos (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: Ray Kinsella
Pete Rose has ... a lifetime ban from baseball for conduct detrimental to the sport ...

The August 23, 1989 agreement ...

Apparently, "lifetime ban" in the phony (and rapidly declining) world of professional baseball means 15 years.

Baseball, after years of strikes and chicanery, is so desperate for heros that it's trying to resurrect the old ones, even the ones who are already corrupted.

28 posted on 08/12/2003 7:47:29 AM PDT by IronJack
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To: xzins
Pete admitted to betting on others and, regarding the Reds, only on them to win.

That dog won't hunt! If I've got money riding on my team to win a game, I am going to do everything in my power to win that one game, even if it may cause me other games down the road. For example, I might overwork my closer to the point where come August and September, he's got nothing left when you really need him.

29 posted on 08/12/2003 7:47:46 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: jpl
Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame for the excellence of his career. He does not merit any active role in baseball, because even though he was a great player, he's an absolute wretch of a human being, basically a piece of amoral flotsam and jetsam.
30 posted on 08/12/2003 7:47:47 AM PDT by GB
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To: jpl
So it is okay to bet against the team your are managing. NO evidence has ever been presented that he did bet against his own team, BUT there is plenty of evidence that he bet for his team. So in the games when he DIDN'T bet FOR his team, what was he in fact doing? If he had never betted for his team I could see your point. But the moment you start betting for your team on somedays and not others, you are really betting against it on those others.

Can I be any more confusing?

31 posted on 08/12/2003 7:48:27 AM PDT by Ray Kinsella
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To: bedolido
he gambled on baseball and has served (about 15 years or so) time for his misdeed

I think given the circumstances you may be right. However, Sports should have a certain number of violations that if violated invoke the ban for life penalty.

32 posted on 08/12/2003 7:49:47 AM PDT by 1Old Pro
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To: IronJack
Pete Rose gambled on baseball and has served (about 15 years or so) time for his misdeed. It's about time he gets parolled. O.J. gets life for murdering his wife
33 posted on 08/12/2003 7:50:02 AM PDT by bedolido (None of us is as dumb as all of us!)
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To: bedolido
The Black Sox scandal almost ruined baseball. It is the easiest game of the others to fix. If there was any question about the integrity of the game, it would die. That is why the penalties have to be as harsh as they are. Judge Landis was absolutely right to do what he did, even if Shoeless Joe got taken down wrongfully.
34 posted on 08/12/2003 7:50:18 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Ray Kinsella
I never paid much attention to the Pete Rose thing, and I'd be hard pressed to care less about baseball in general, but...

But the moment you start betting for your team on somedays and not others, you are really betting against it on those others.

That is just dumb. What would be his incentive to lose games where he stood to gain no money for doing so?

35 posted on 08/12/2003 7:53:10 AM PDT by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: D. Brian Carter
I live in Florida...very well in tune with whats goin on with da fish. It is indeed a nice story to see unfold locally.
36 posted on 08/12/2003 7:53:15 AM PDT by My Favorite Headache (Which one will lose? Depends on what I choose or maybe which voice...I ignore.)
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To: over3Owithabrain
Yup, just like the rape charge against Kobe.......brings fans to the sport......yippeee.........

SICK SICK SICK, but then we had X42 as pres so why not.

37 posted on 08/12/2003 7:53:37 AM PDT by OldFriend ((Dems inhabit a parallel universe))
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To: Ray Kinsella
Excellent point.
38 posted on 08/12/2003 7:53:55 AM PDT by My Favorite Headache (Which one will lose? Depends on what I choose or maybe which voice...I ignore.)
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To: Ray Kinsella
In a time where integrity in the major leagues means even less than it ever did, Rose's return is par for the course.

There's a commissioner who doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground, players who don't know if they're going or coming, increasing prices, continued strikes and work-stoppages, and egos a-plenty. Pete will fit right in.

I'm a long-time Rose fan; I want to see Charlie Hustle in the Hall for his accomplishments on the field. But to have him back "in baseball" managing? Nope.

39 posted on 08/12/2003 7:54:48 AM PDT by mhking
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To: Ray Kinsella
What a boondoggle. Put him in the HOF after he's dead, but never before.
40 posted on 08/12/2003 7:55:25 AM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
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