Posted on 08/11/2003 3:07:29 PM PDT by nickcarraway
Ottawa — At least 48 Liberal MPs have publicly declared that they are against legalizing same-sex marriage, the most opposition Jean Chrétien has faced from his own caucus to one of his laws since coming into office 10 years ago.
A Globe and Mail survey of all Liberal MPs found 60 in favour of the government's proposed bill to legalize same-sex marriage, 48 opposed and 27 undecided. Twenty-nine refused to answer and seven could not be reached.
That Liberal opposition — combined with MPs from other parties who are against the legislation — throws into doubt whether the bill, to be decided in a free vote, will pass the Commons.
When opposition MPs are taken into account, both sides can claim roughly the same levels of support, with opponents holding a slight edge. That places passage of the bill in the hands of a clutch of undecided Liberals who are being arm-twisted by vociferous constituents.
Many of those who are undecided said they believe their constituents could accept a marriage-like, legally sanctioned union for gays and lesbians but they don't want to call it marriage.
"Although they're not opposed to same-sex unions, they don't understand at all why we would change the definition of the term marriage," said Yolande Thibeault, a Liberal MP from the suburban Montreal riding of Saint-Lambert. "It's the word marriage that's the obstacle."
While Liberal backbenchers can break party ranks because they have been promised a free vote, cabinet ministers are required to vote for the government bill to keep their jobs. But even they are not solidly behind the bill, the survey shows.
Natural Resources Minister Herb Dhaliwal, a senior minister, said he is undecided and must consult his constituents. Fisheries Minister Robert Thibault, Labour Minister Claudette Bradshaw, Veterans Affairs Minister Rey Pagtakhan and junior foreign minister David Kilgour are also undecided.
But several other ministers refused to answer the question, a sign of the discomfort they face: Gerry Byrne, Atlantic Development; Ethel Blondin-Andrew, Secretary of State for Children and Youth; Paul DeVillers, Amateur Sport; and Jean Augustine, junior minister for multiculturalism and the status of women.
For the survey, reporters in The Globe and Mail's Ottawa bureau contacted the offices of all 171 Liberal MPs. Seven were out of the country or otherwise impossible to reach, while 29 would not answer or did not respond to repeated telephone calls.
Almost all the Liberal MPs are expected to gather for a three-day caucus meeting that begins Aug. 19, where many who have not met since the government proposed the bill promise an all-out confrontation.
To attempt to sway the undecided, Mr. Chrétien will argue for the bill when he meets the MPs, aides say.
"He's not going to preach. He's going to outline again what his position is, which is that there needs to be a separation between church and state, and that this is an issue of equality, and the government needs to protect the equality of all Canadians," spokeswoman Thoren Hudyma said.
"The Prime Minister will probably talk about the importance of the courts in the process. Also he's going to talk about the reality of the Charter of Rights."
In recent months, courts in Ontario and British Columbia have struck down the traditional heterosexual definition of marriage as a discriminatory violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and same-sex marriages are already being performed in those provinces.
The federal government chose not to appeal, and instead proposed a bill to legalize same-sex marriages. But first, the Supreme Court of Canada is being asked whether that is constitutional. Then MPs will be allowed a free vote on the bill.
On the opposition side of the House of Commons, the vote is also split, but largely along party lines.
The Canadian Alliance (63 seats) and at least half the Tory caucus's 15 MPs are expected to vote against, giving opponents 70 to 75 votes. Most of the Bloc Québécois and NDP, and some Tories, will vote for, giving supporters 55 to 60 votes.
Many Liberal opponents of the bill say they are simply responding to their constituents' views. They said they have been flooded with complaints in their ridings since the government announced the move in June.
"I even hate to go to the grocery store. People just grab you by the arm and say, what is happening up in Ottawa? They cannot understand why this is an issue at this time," said Rose-Marie Ur, MP for Lambton-Kent-Middlesex.
Some opponents argue that court rulings that struck down the traditional definition of marriage should have been appealed at the Supreme Court, however.
"We just laid down and said whatever the courts say," said Brenda Chamberlain, Liberal MP for Guelph-Wellington. "What about what the people say?"
However, many who support the bill suggest the opposition is vocal but not the majority. Polls show a majority of Canadians — 54 per cent in a June Ipsos-Reid survey — favour legalizing same-sex marriage.
Others who endorse same-sex marriage say it is not a matter of public opinion. "It is a fundamental issue of human rights," Montreal MP Marlene Jennings said.
The dissenters also note the government promised that same-sex-marriage legislation would not be introduced when the Commons overwhelmingly voted to retain the traditional definition in 1999. Anne McLellan, who was then the justice minister and made the promise, now supports the legalization of same-sex marriage.
Richmond, B.C., MP Joe Peschisolido, who was elected as a Canadian Alliance MP and switched parties, said he has received more than 3,000 letters, e-mails, and calls: and 80 per cent are against same-sex marriage.
Other MPs are somewhat torn. MP Judy Sgro of York West said she considers herself an advocate of minority rights but can't accept a change to the marriage definition. Sault Ste. Marie MP Carmen Provenzano said he personally would like to vote for the bill as a symbol of acceptance of gays and lesbians, but he feels he must reflect his constituents' opposition.
With reports from Jeff Sallot, Daniel Leblanc, Steven Chase, Jane Taber and Simon Tuck
These aren't Merkin Leftists who have appropriated the word "Liberal"
Here's an explanation from the homosexual community:
An excerpt from: In Their Own Words: The Homosexual Agenda:
"Homosexual activist Michelangelo Signorile, who writes periodically for The New York Times, summarizes the agenda in OUT magazine:
...to fight for same-sex marriage and its benefits and then, once granted, redefine the institution of marriage completely, to demand the right to marry not as a way of adhering to society's moral codes, but rather to debunk a myth and radically alter an archaic institution... The most subversive action lesbian and gay men can undertake --and one that would perhaps benefit all of society--is to transform the notion of family entirely." "Its the final tool with which to dismantle all sodomy statues, get education about homosexuality and AIDS into the public schools and in short to usher in a sea change in how society views and treats us."
The Homosexual Propaganda and Media Manipulation Game
What Homosexuals Say About Homosexuals - Is This Gay Behavior Sick?
You can't very well say that a "man and man" joining is the same thing. Not remotely. Different physiologies, different psyches, different hormones, different child-bearing capacities, different.....you name it.
That should be interesting.
If we ever get one of these in the USA, please, just shoot me.
I think the provincial break-down of the results explains it. The poll mentioned in the article shows there is much more opposition in Ontario than in places like BC and Quebec. Most Liberal seats are centred in Ontario (which are crucial for the Libs to hold on to government in the next election).
Marriage is anything the judges say it is. Today, homosexuals. Tomorrow, your mother. Thursday, your sisters, and Friday everyone at the bathhouse.
Saturday will be renamed Satyrday, and goats will have their way with women. Married, mind you.
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