Newsweek column on outsourcing

Newsweek ^ | 8-07-2003 | Michael Rogers

[samuel_adams_us]

Read further, I didn't say you have a right to a job.

[DugwayDuke]

"Move, if you don't believe in our constitution, find somewhere else to live, you could be called a traitor."

What a stunning rebuttal. Why should anyone advocating the freedom to contract be called a "traitor"?

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/960501/posts?page=67#67

Dugway hasn't responded to this post and it contains facts and logic not insults and whining.

[FreedomAvatar]

Why, pray tell, should I be in favor of subsidizing the income of some hi-tech MBA?

You shouldn't but you will - one way or the other. Either through regulation and tarrifs or through stratospheric taxes levied by the 21st century equivalent of the "New Deal".

[aegiscg47]

I work with many Indian student employees at a university computer lab. They are smart, quick learners, and have a good work ethic. This is a complete 180 from most of my American kids who think that society owes them everything. Also, another factor in this are the massive costs in benefits for American workers.

Just in our university alone there are hundreds of employees making a killing in salary, benefits, retirement packages, etc..., which far outstrip their productivity. Then, when jobs are outsourced overseas for 25% of the cost, everyone complains. Corporations exist to make a profit! I'm not a traitor, sympathetic to outsourcing, etc..., but this is a reality.

[DugwayDuke]

"actually under our Constitution it is liberty becuase no one has an absolute right to import tings without paying duties levied by Congress. Please see article 1 of the US Constitution."

Good point. But that power was granted to the federal government to fund the federal government. It was not granted to ensure that one segment of the population could enjoy a particular standard of living or to transfer wealth from one segment to another.

[hchutch]

Sorry, all I am seeing from the vast majority here is a hand out and shouts of "gimme gimme" - nothing more nothing less. The tactics are no different from those used by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. We treat the Jackson-Sharpton shakdowns (that is what they are) with contempt.

Now, why should I hold the whiners here to a different standard?

[hedgetrimmer]

America has a long tradition of citizens standing up for their neighbors. It is essential to the definition of Americanism.

Also essential to Americanism is the idea that all aspects of American life, should be tempered with morality. The founding fathers wrote extensively on this subject.

"Americanism means the virtues of courage, honor, justice, truth, sincerity, and hardihood -- the virtues that made America." -- Teddy Roosevelt

So ask yourself-- is it honorable for you to support the so called "free market" system that impoverishes your neighbor and enriches the slavemasters in communist countries? Just to save a few bucks when you buy a coffee machine?

[harpseal]

You are acting no differently than Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. I have contempt for them when they have their hand out, shouting "gimme gimme" - and threaten to call me names.

First I do not say gimme gimme demanding any special group recieve favorable traetment other tahn Americans as a whole. Second I can disagree quite reasonably with people who take a pro free trade position and I am more than willing to discuss any issue with reason provided factual references are provided and the person making this assertion is not engaged in continued outright misrepresentation.

Now, do you have a good reason why I should feel any less contempt for YOU when you do the same thing, albeit you use "traitor" as opposed to "racist"?

I reserve traitor for very few posters only those who misrepresent American History and outright engage in lying and have done so on a number of past threads. I recognize it is hars but I also recognize that a prolonged pattern of outright fraud in support of a cause that harms the USA merits such appelation. This may or may not have any effect on your thinking and i am more than happy to provide specific reasons I call things lies. For example whenever anyone calls a tariff a Marxist program I will cite Alexander Hamilton as a proponent of protective tariffs. There are some who swill cite Jefferson. There are others who will cite Marx own statements against tariffs.

Now I do admit to a short fuse this morning. You will note that I have been in no way abusive. If you would like to discuss the substance of issues I shall be more than happy to do so. If you chose not to so be it.

[Paul Ross]

The only people that are going to benefit from these tariffs are the lawyers who get to tie up the courts as they try to split hairs on just what exactly constitutes "offshored software."

No lawyers needed. Just Customs Officials. End of Out-sourcing when the Bill gets big enough.

[samuel_adams_us]

You condone business screwing the citizens of the united states for profit and providing them with no help in creating a new life and that is not freedom, this country was founded for personal freedom, not corporate freedom. I will comment no further.

[DugwayDuke]

You may not have noticed but I've been carrying on a debate with five or six different folks. I'll get to Harpseal's post when I get the time.

[samuel_adams_us]

Don't try to tell someone the truth, when they are drunk on the almight dollar, their ears are not open to reason.

[StolarStorm]

"I work with many Indian student employees at a university computer lab. They are smart, quick learners, and have a good work ethic. This is a complete 180 from most of my American kids who think that society owes them everything".

Gee, do you think the fact that only top elite students from India come here? Your mistake is one often made.... and misunderstanding of who GETS to study here. I'd put our best students against their best students any day.

[Dane]

Only now, they use the same tactics as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton: The hand is out, they shout "gimme gimme" - and if you don't comply, they will call you names. Only these folks use "traitor" instead of "racist" when they call names.

They are, IMHO, just as disgusting

I agree. Like I have stated before on these type of threads, I saw this same type of rhetoric 20 years ago when the steelworkers were shouting about those damn "Japs" taking everything to Tokyo.

We all saw what happened to Japan.

[hedgetrimmer]

It was not granted to ensure that one segment of the population could enjoy a particular standard of living

Sounds like you're one of those who think America has a living standard that is too high. Like the WTO and the UN, who want to see American wages reduced and are actively promoting policies that do that?

[Keyes2000mt]

Indian techs do not all do a better job. I'm a former tech. support agent (laid off so the jobs could go to Canada and India) and I had to fix so many things that Indian tech. support messed up.

I remember the guy who yelled at me for half an hour because some jerk in India had him run a Non-Destructive recovery before checking on a known issue. The guy's only problem was his CD-RW was not working. He had to reformat his Hard Drive and lose everything because of this tech.

Corporations that go to India don't care about customer service. They're cheapskates who'll sacrifice customer service for the bottom line.

I believe it's high time to impose tariffs, eliminate the income tax, and impose a National Sales tax. Lets protect American jobs. Lets take care of America first.

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

But the post I directed you shows that it is CORPORATE WELFARE that is being supported by OPIC and the Export-Import Bank. Our tax money is subsidizing offshoring of American jobs to Third World countries.
Furthermore, this is a growing National Security risk as Kissinger, Duncan Hunter, Lou Dobbs, William Hawkins, Paul Craig Roberts and others of diverse background can clearly see.
Please, do yourself and America the favor of doing a little independent research. "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance".

[DugwayDuke]

"So ask yourself-- is it honorable for you to support the so called "free market" system that impoverishes your neighbor and enriches the slavemasters in communist countries? Just to save a few bucks when you buy a coffee machine?"

Oh, give me a break! This article is about outsourcing IT jobs, not coffee machines. And, "slavemasters in communist countries" are not mentioned once. Unless you consider "France", "India", and "Canada" communist slavemasters.

[harpseal]

Sorry, all I am seeing from the vast majority here is a hand out and shouts of "gimme gimme" - nothing more nothing less. The tactics are no different from those used by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. We treat the Jackson-Sharpton shakdowns (that is what they are) with contempt.

To call disagreement about government poklicy that has resulted in a loss of jobs over the past months whinning is a bit extreme IMHO. Now as I said previously if you wish to discuss issues and not call names "Whinner", Jackson-Sharpton lets discuss the issues obf what is currently called "Free Trade." Lets discuss OPIC. Lets discuss currency controls including those in India and China. Lets discuss providing an exemnption arround immigration laws for guest workers. Lets discuss 50% Chinese tariffs. or perhaps you would care to dicuss some other issues like non tariff barriers to American products.

It is also not unusual to have discussions of the history of tariffs in the USA and economic theories of Free Trade suchas that propounded by Riccardo. There are even some who have tried to bring forth the theories ofd Bastiat and an anti Constitutionalist stand. All of these can be dealt with fairly and reasonably.

Now, why should I hold the whiners here to a different standard?

Whiners again if this keeps up then you will be guilty of name caling when invited to participate in a reasonable discussion.