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It pays to avoid a ticket -- or fight one
MSN Money ^ | July 15, 2003 | Chris Solomon

Posted on 07/15/2003 11:22:14 AM PDT by mvpel

The best advice is simply not to speed, at least not brazenly. But if you get nailed, fight it -- because a $50 ticket can cost you thousands once your insurer gets wind of it.

 By Chris Solomon

Now is a very bad time to have a lead foot.

States facing yawning budget gaps are finding new money by pinching speeders more frequently -- and pinching them harder, too. Texas lawmakers recently added $30 to fines for speeding tickets. California has added a surcharge of between $7 and $20, depending on the severity of the violation. And the Illinois Legislature is set to tag an additional $4 to the cost of a minor speeding ticket.

True, four more bucks won’t change your life, but the fine is usually the least of your worries. Even one speeding ticket can begin to turn your name to mud in your insurer’s eyes. More than one can cost you thousands of dollars in higher premiums.

Insurance companies say punishing speeders is well warranted: In one study, California drivers with one speeding citation in a three-year period had a crash rate 50% higher, on average, than those with no infractions -- and the crash rate more than doubled for those who had two or more tickets, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the Highway Loss Data Institute, industry-sponsored research groups.

A ticket from Johnny Law does seem to slow people down, at least for a bit. A study of Ontario traffic statistics, published in the British medical journal the Lancet, found that a conviction for a moving violation cut the risk of a fatal crash in the following month by 35%. The benefit evaporated by four months after the conviction. Assigning penalty points to a driver’s license -- especially for speeding tickets -- reduced the risk of fatal crashes more than convictions without penalty points.

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Keeping your nose clean
Still, as long as running late is an American pastime, people will speed. And there are ways to protect yourself and your premiums. First, reduce your likelihood of getting snagged by the speed gun in these ways:


The traffic stop and its aftermath
You get pulled over anyway. Now what do you do?



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: insurance; police; speeding; tickets
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To: newwahoo
Kudo's to you for avoiding ticketing people with kids in the car. The last speeding ticket I got (6 years ago) was on father's day, on our way home from church, with my whole family in the car. 42 in a 35.

I resisted my urge to thank the officer for his kindness. But most people in OKC know that you don't speed or run yellow lights in Edmond or you are toast.

81 posted on 07/15/2003 1:32:41 PM PDT by okkev68
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To: Gunrunner2
I base the LEO not getting a ticket comment on having a mother, three sisters, a brother, an uncle, and two good friends who are cops (or have been at one time or another). With out fail, they all say that they do not get tickets from cops, and the won't give tickets to cops.

...and good looking women getting of with a warning...well, again, I just know plenty of nice looking ladies who can tell tons of "got a warning instead of a ticket" stories.

If you are asking if I have done a scientific study, I haven't. Maybe the government will commission one.

How's the new job going?

82 posted on 07/15/2003 1:36:34 PM PDT by TankerKC (I guess I missed your point.)
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To: longtermmemmory
were you speeding is a yes or no question.

Yes but...you can still be speeding and NOT guilty. Example..

Speed limit = 25
Your speed = 30
Cop's ticket = 35
Assuming you take the stand, prosecutor asks you (or your witness)what speed you were going. You say 30 and explain that you've been charged with going 35 of which you are not guilty. The judge, if he/she believes you...should find you not guilty as you were charged for going 35!

83 posted on 07/15/2003 1:38:11 PM PDT by Drango (Just 5¢ a day will end pledge drives on FreeRepublic.)
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To: MineralMan
I've driven here almost every day for 15 years, the average around here for non-rush hour traffic is posted plus 15 unless you're up around Sunrise/ Skyline/ Ina (gotta love the clowns that name our roads) where Tucson turns into the autobahn (I've actually been passed by numerous cars while I was doing 65 down Swan heading away from Sunrise). If you're doing the speedlimit here I garauntee you're getting passed, flipped off, and cut off on a regular basis. We like to drive fast around here, it's because we've got wide dry roads and Tucson takes up a lot of land, and once you get out of the gridded section you can scrape together a mile or two between lights.
84 posted on 07/15/2003 1:40:55 PM PDT by discostu (the train that won't stop going, no way to slow down)
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To: newwahoo
It may be wrong in a way but I don't write NRA stickers, pro-GOP stickers, vets and the like. I also won't write someone with their kids in the car. "Free Mumia" stickers get whatevever I can toss at them. I guess I'm human and I work in a target-rich environment so I can be picky.

That is awesome. I hope that if I ever get pulled over by a cop, he or she is as cool as you. BTW, I met the relatives of Daniel Faulkner at some talks that my College Republican group sponsored. We also had some LEOs from Philly come to support our speaker and make sure that the "Free Mumia" people did not get out of hand. They sure are a crazy bunch.
85 posted on 07/15/2003 1:43:10 PM PDT by CollegeRepublican
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To: CollegeRepublican
I guess I should put my NRA sticker to use :)
86 posted on 07/15/2003 1:50:34 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
I have mine in the back window of my truck. ;)
87 posted on 07/15/2003 1:51:19 PM PDT by CollegeRepublican
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To: okkev68
"Kudo's to you for avoiding ticketing people with kids in the car."

I guess you can thank the same older cops that taught me about not ticketing other cops' families. Its a summons after all, not an arrest situation.

88 posted on 07/15/2003 1:53:53 PM PDT by newwahoo
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To: cinFLA
"A lot of states administer the tests in the native (non-English) languages"

Its dangerous to say the least. I don't know how to say "stay in your car" or "turn off your engine" in 20 languages.

89 posted on 07/15/2003 2:00:32 PM PDT by newwahoo
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To: TankerKC
Have no problem with the LEO thing, professional manners.

The woman thing, I know from my own experience, and from my friends still in the business oh-these-so-many-years-later, good-looking women are sure to get ticketed for the reasons I mentioned. Especially today, as my friends tell me, they take no chance when it comes to things such as charges of sexual harassment.

Things are booming and int'l travel is up, way up, as business seems to have taken an upswing lately. Leaving for CA tomorrow, then back for a few days, then Orlando, then back, then Wash DC, then back, then an un-named country, and back. . .beats selling shoes but I tell ya, the airlines are getting worse. Boy, I luv Brit Air.

Cheers!
90 posted on 07/15/2003 2:01:41 PM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: CollegeRepublican
"That is awesome. I hope that if I ever get pulled over by a cop, he or she is as cool as you."

Best thing to do is just take it slow. Speeding is only going to get you somewhere a little faster anyway. My first bad traffic accident is something I wish everyone could have seen. This woman was hit crossing the street by an aggressive driver and I can still hear the way she was screaming. Its just not worth the chance.

The vast majority of cops here vote straight GOP even though we're in a union of sorts. So right wing bumper stickers and the like are usually a good thing.

Stay safe..

91 posted on 07/15/2003 2:08:03 PM PDT by newwahoo
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To: newwahoo
Its dangerous to say the least. I don't know how to say "stay in your car" or "turn off your engine" in 20 languages.

My friend was nailed for speeding in Korea. He tried the "hands up in wonderment - know no Korean" act. The policeman proudly proclaimed in well rehearsed english "Please follow me to the station". Probably the only english he knew. My friend had to backtrack about 20 miles to the station. Now he wishes he had played the "I am sorry" act and just signed the ticket and worried about how to deal with it later.

92 posted on 07/15/2003 2:12:23 PM PDT by cinFLA
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To: Gunrunner2
Boy, I luv Brit Air.

Never flown BA so don't know if that is sarcasm or not. But I am sure that BA cannot compare to some of the Asian lines for service.

93 posted on 07/15/2003 2:13:51 PM PDT by cinFLA
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To: mvpel
About three years ago, I fought a ticket for going 28 mph in a 20 mph school zone(SZ). What really chapped me was the fact that I had never even entered the SZ - not even when the officer pulled out to stop me! The officer was a complete jerk and refused to even acknowledge my question about where exactly did he measure my speed.

When I finally got my date in court, there were about five people ahead of me - all of whose cases consisted of their word against the (same) officer's. An assistant DA was there to prosecute the tickets and in every case established the officer's experience, familiarity with the area, notetaking, etc. All lost.

On my turn, I proceded to establish his location, which was on a cross street just south of the clearly-marked beginning of the SZ. I was travelling north-bound in a 35 mph zone when he clocked me. He actually pulled out from the cross street, travelled across the southbound lanes, and stopped his motorcycle in front of me. We were both at a complete stop and the beginning of the SZ was still ahead of us. Therefore, it was impossible for him to have recorded my speed inside the zone. I also presented photographs showing the relative loactions of the cross streets, school zone, and traffic signs. I felt good.

Then the assistant DA got up and tried to get me to concede that my recollection could be faulty, that the officer may be more familiar with the area in question, and that it was possible that he could have been on a different cross street inside the school zone. I politely held firm and maintained my version of events.

Then he put the officer on the stand. After establishing his bona fides, he asked for the officer's version of events. Sure enough, the officer stated under oath that he was on a different cross street that was well inside the SZ. And that, of course, he clocked me inside the SZ. My heart sank into my stomach. If he had shut up then it would have been solely my word against his. and I had already witnessed whom the court believes in those situations.

But he didn't shut up. He went on to embellish, "I could not have been on the street that the defendant alleges, because there is a solid median there. I would have had to jump the median with my motorcycle to get to the northbound lane." Or words to that effect. Suddenly, I felt like Perry Mason.

When I got to cross-examine the officer, I reminded him of the pictures I had submitted to the court. I actually walked up to him and asked him to identify which intersection had a solid median and which did not. He had to concede that his recollection was not correct and that perhaps he was mistaken about his initial location. I promptly sat down and shut up.

The judge then made a statement about how I probably did commit the infraction, but there was enough doubt in the officer's testimony that he had to dismiss the ticket. I was a little irked that the judge still thought I did it, but had enough sense to keep that to myself. The officer actually had a mini-outburst (he said Damn! or Man! or something like that loud enough for me to hear across the courtroom - and also pounded the table once with his fist). Needless to say, he was not pleased. That was delicious.

All in all, the end result was extremely satisfying - even though it was only a lousy 8 MPH over ticket. It was also a little scary, seeing that I would have easily lost if the officer had just kept his lies straight.

94 posted on 07/15/2003 2:17:07 PM PDT by Cooter
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To: mvpel
BTTTTTTT
95 posted on 07/15/2003 2:21:01 PM PDT by dennisw (G-d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
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To: mvpel
We live in a manufactured housing community, privately owned. Three weeks ago my wife decided to let my unlicensed, non-permit teeneage daughter drive the trash down to the dumpster. It was the first time she'd ever driven by herself.

She entered an intersection - still in the neighborhood - where she had the right of way. A lady ran a stop sign and did $1500.00 worth of damage to our vehicle. My daughter was cited for driving without an operators license.

We are using the experience to learn about the law. Last week she plead "not guilty" before a judge. On Tuesday, 7/22 she goes to an omnibus hearing. We studied the state code under which she was cited, and it does not govern the road upon which she was driving. Furthermore, the individual at fault for the accident was not cited precisely for this reason.

Nevertheless, I was fit to be tied when I heard about the wreck and how she was allowed to drive with neither license nor permit. The spouse and I had a talk about that one.

Well, we'll see what happens.

96 posted on 07/15/2003 2:31:11 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Cooter
I'm a staunch supporter of our men/women in blue.

However, 15 years ago when I fought my traffic ticket in court, the testifying officer either was mistaken or was perjuring himself when described the reading showing on the radar gun which I had demanded to see. It so flummoxed me that he would lie that I botched my case and lost.

Now I realize that cops are human too and during court trials on TV or in the newspappers, I take what they say under oath with a grain of salt.

97 posted on 07/15/2003 2:33:57 PM PDT by Drango (Just 5¢ a day will end pledge drives on FreeRepublic.)
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To: mvpel
1 piece of advise....The police officer does NOT, REPEAT NOT, have to show up.
98 posted on 07/15/2003 2:34:07 PM PDT by timestax
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To: timestax
The police officer does NOT, REPEAT NOT, have to show up.

How so...no complaining witness...no case. What am I missing?

99 posted on 07/15/2003 2:41:48 PM PDT by Drango (Just 5¢ a day will end pledge drives on FreeRepublic.)
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To: mvpel
Check out this website-know the enemy and where he lurks:

http://www.speedtrap.org/index.html

100 posted on 07/15/2003 2:55:48 PM PDT by Fresh Wind (Never forget: CLINTON PARDONED TERRORISTS)
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