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It pays to avoid a ticket -- or fight one
MSN Money ^
| July 15, 2003
| Chris Solomon
Posted on 07/15/2003 11:22:14 AM PDT by mvpel
The best advice is simply not to speed, at least not brazenly. But if you get nailed, fight it -- because a $50 ticket can cost you thousands once your insurer gets wind of it.
By Chris Solomon
Now is a very bad time to have a lead foot.
States facing yawning budget gaps are finding new money by pinching speeders more frequently -- and pinching them harder, too. Texas lawmakers recently added $30 to fines for speeding tickets. California has added a surcharge of between $7 and $20, depending on the severity of the violation. And the Illinois Legislature is set to tag an additional $4 to the cost of a minor speeding ticket.
True, four more bucks wont change your life, but the fine is usually the least of your worries. Even one speeding ticket can begin to turn your name to mud in your insurers eyes. More than one can cost you thousands of dollars in higher premiums.
Insurance companies say punishing speeders is well warranted: In one study, California drivers with one speeding citation in a three-year period had a crash rate 50% higher, on average, than those with no infractions -- and the crash rate more than doubled for those who had two or more tickets, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the Highway Loss Data Institute, industry-sponsored research groups.
A ticket from Johnny Law does seem to slow people down, at least for a bit. A study of Ontario traffic statistics, published in the British medical journal the Lancet, found that a conviction for a moving violation cut the risk of a fatal crash in the following month by 35%. The benefit evaporated by four months after the conviction. Assigning penalty points to a drivers license -- especially for speeding tickets -- reduced the risk of fatal crashes more than convictions without penalty points.
Keeping your nose clean
Still, as long as running late is an American pastime, people will speed. And there are ways to protect yourself and your premiums. First, reduce your likelihood of getting snagged by the speed gun in these ways:
- Know thyself. Spend $5 to request your driving record from your states Department of Motor Vehicles. Is it accurate? Could you face a suspension hearing if you get convicted for one more violation? Then call your insurer. Find out what a slip-up would mean to your rates.
- Penny-wise = pound foolish. Police will frequently key on an auto that has problems such as broken headlights, taped-over taillights or a missing front license plate. Spend $3 to replace a burned-out license plate bulb and you may save hundreds of dollars later, says Matisyahu Wolfberg, a policeman-turned-traffic defense attorney in New York.
- Stay incognito, Part I. Driving an arrest-me red sports car doesnt guarantee youll get pulled over, but it doesnt help avoid police, say defense attorneys. Ditto -- albeit to a lesser degree -- any expensive car. Consider a Camry over a Corvette and you may save money in more than the showroom.
- Stay incognito, Part II. Ignore the general pace of traffic at your own peril. Youre a pack animal; dont stick out of the pack, says Casey Raskob, a Croton-on-Hudson, N.Y., attorney who focuses on traffic-related cases. Passing police cars is verboten. Stay in the right lane when possible.
- Keep your eyes peeled. Scan your rear-view mirror often while driving. Look for possible spots far ahead where a patrol car could hide. Also, watch how professional truckers drive, and slow down when they do; theyve got far more experience detecting Smokey.
- Dont be sticker shocked. Pasting a Police Benevolent Association sticker to the rear window isnt a license to speed. That jig is long up, says Raskob. Wisecracking bumper stickers -- Bad Cop; No Donut -- wont endear you to The Man, either.
The traffic stop and its aftermath
You get pulled over anyway. Now what do you do?
- Be polite. Most of the time, the motorist has very little chance. The officer has already has made up his mind, says Wolfberg, the former cop. The only real chance the driver has is to be nice. Act peeved and a trooper may give you the full fine. Some will also flag the citation with a notation, like ND -- a note to a prosecutor or to himself (in some states, law-enforcement officers act as prosecutors in traffic court) to give a loudmouth no deal in court.
- Dont admit guilt. The absolutely fatal question is, Do you know why I stopped you? says attorney Mark Sutherland, co-author of the book Traffic Ticket Defense. Authorities can use any admission of guilt against you when you contest the ticket (see below). For other things to consider during a traffic stop, see hints on the Web site of the National Motorists Association, a drivers rights group (see the link at left under Related Sites).
- Once home, dont immediately pay the ticket. Simply paying the fine, an admission of guilt, could cost you dearly in insurance rates. Doubt it? Lets say youre an experienced driver in California with a single-car policy and a good driving record, who is paying the average rates statewide for liability, collision and comprehensive coverage, $765 annually. If you were a Prudential Financial customer youd get a 25% good-driver discount and pay only $574. One speeding ticket would mean a roughly 27% increase from the base premium, says Prudentials Laurita Warner -- a $207 annual increase, or $621 more over three years. (Surcharges usually last for three years.)
Get a second minor conviction and your premium would rise an additional 40%, and youd also lose your good-driver discount, says Warner. Suddenly, a premium that was $574 has ballooned to $1,071. After the third conviction, expect to pay roughly 63% more than you originally did, or $1,247. Over three years you would end up paying $2,020 more than if youd kept your nose clean, or much more than the fines themselves. Clearly, getting pinched leaves a painful scar.
The pain can be even worse if youre a teenager or young adult. Getting even one speeding ticket, much less two, can cause a dramatic spike in your insurance rates -- sometimes doubling and even tripling those rates -- and jeopardize your ability to get preferred insurance rates, says Karl Newman, president of the Washington Insurance Council, a consumer education group funded by member insurance companies in Washington State. That could require you to purchase high-risk insurance.
Luckily, youve got several initial options once busted:
- Ignoring the ticket isnt one of them. It used to be if you obtained a ticket in New York, it didnt get back to New Jersey, but thats no longer true, says Raskob. Avoid a ticket and a warrant may be issued for your arrest -- a warrant that appears even on the computer system of your hometown cops.
- Special state programs. Talk to your states DMV or local traffic court to find out about ways to erase your ticket. In Rhode Island, for example, if you havent had any vehicle-related violations in three years and then receive a minor one (for example, for exceeding the speed limit by less than 20 miles an hour), you can ask that the ticket be dismissed. It usually is. In some southern states, authorities will agree to defer judgment, if you dont get any more tickets for the next six months.
- Traffic school. Often your best alternative is to take a six- to eight-hour safety course for drivers. Policies vary by state, but often a minor speeding conviction can be wiped from your record and therefore go unseen by your employer or insurance company. Youll still have to pay the fine, plus an additional $50 to $80 in tuition and other costs, and invest a Saturday. Some states such as California let drivers take the course online. Traffic school has its limits, however. In some states, its an option only once every 18 or 24 months. In others, those caught exceeding the speed limit by more than 15 to 20 mph may not be eligible, says David Brown, author of the book Beat Your Ticket.
Should you go to court?
If the above options arent available, go to court. Court doesnt have to be a Perry Mason experience. Simply asking for your day in traffic court can save you money. Count the ways:
- Showing up is half the battle. Only about 3% of all tickets are contested, estimates Brown, which means even a few people showing up to challenge a ticket can jam the system. A lot of times the courts will change the ticket for you, to encourage you not to go to court -- sometimes reducing a moving violation to a lesser charge that your insurance company wont penalize you for, says Eric Skrum, spokesman for the National Motorists Association.
- Cop no-shows. If you show up on your assigned date, defense attorneys say that in 20% to 25% of cases the ticket-writing officer won't. If the officer is required to show up (jurisdictions have different rules), no appearance usually means the ticket is thrown out. No-shows by police happen even more in summer, when even they take vacations.
- Errors matter (sometimes). While courts will often excuse minor errors on a ticket -- a misspelled name, a quibble over whether your Jag is ochre or orange -- if the officer cites the wrong statute on the ticket, or grossly misidentifies the highway or your make of car, you may to get your ticket dismissed, says Skrum. Its often best to keep mum about the gaffe until you go to court, however, and reveal the mistake after the officer has recounted the wrong information.
- An 'A' for effort. If you do get all the way to a magistrate or traffic commissioner, any reasonable objection you have to the ticket is likely to at least reduce the amount of the fine, and perhaps change it to an infraction that wont hurt your rates. Youve got to fight every ticket, because the only thing anyone will ever know is what you reduced it to. The accusation will be lost in the courthouse, says Raskob.
The above, soft approach often works, but some people prefer to aggressively contest the ticket, which they usually do with at least some success. When [Freeper] Michael Pelletier, a 32-year-old computer systems engineer in the Bay Area, got a ticket a few years ago, he rented the nine-pound (!) legal defense kit from the National Motorists Association. (The rental cost of the packet, which is tailored to the requesters state, is $50 per month, with a discount for NMA members.)
The only thing I did was crank the legal crank, says Pelletier. That meant asking for continuances and requesting records -- proof of when the officers radar gun was last calibrated and when the officer was trained in its use -- in hopes of finding a flaw in the authorities case, or simply wearing them down until they offered a deal.
A pre-emptive strike
Battling in court can be time-consuming and complicated. Pelletier estimates he invested nearly 50 hours in the year 2000 to fight his ticket, which he received driving his motorcycle 47 miles an hour in a 25 mph zone. He got it dismissed seven months later based on an esoteric legal definition of a local street or road.
In Pelletiers eyes, the struggles are worthwhile despite the time commitment. He has also helped his wife and brother keep three citations from their records, and his insurance company recently upgraded him to a superior driver, which means he will pay $70 less in the next six months than he had been paying. And by keeping his driving record clean hes ensured that his next ticket -- if it sticks -- wont hurt him so much as it might have.
If you dont have the time to do all of this research, consider hiring an attorney who frequently deals with speeding tickets. Such an attorney will know how to get the best deal for you and can often appear in court for you, so you dont have to take a day off to do so. Fees can vary from $75 to $750, in part depending on whether theyre already frequently in the courthouse dealing with such matters.
The free piece of advice they give, however, is the same: Confront your speeding ticket, even if its your first, and do your darnedest to make it disappear. After all, they add, you never know when youll get your next one, with higher premiums close behind.
TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: insurance; police; speeding; tickets
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To: SamAdams76
"But almost everytime I get pulled over, I get just a warning. I do sport an American flag on my back window and a Marine Corps bumber sticker. Maybe that has something to do with the cops giving me a break. Or maybe it's that I'm unfailingly polite to the officer"
I would leave out the part where you admit guilt but otherwise you make good points. It may be wrong in a way but I don't write NRA stickers, pro-GOP stickers, vets and the like. I also won't write someone with their kids in the car. "Free Mumia" stickers get whatevever I can toss at them. I guess I'm human and I work in a target-rich environment so I can be picky.
61
posted on
07/15/2003 12:59:26 PM PDT
by
newwahoo
To: MEGoody
If I get a ticket for speeding, I wouldn't fight it unless I WASN'T speeding.That's certainly your perogative, as it's your insurance premiums and and your drivers license at risk.
62
posted on
07/15/2003 1:00:22 PM PDT
by
mvpel
(Michael Pelletier)
To: TankerKC
>>If you are a nice looking lady a LEO, you will get a break. <<
And you base this insightful statment on. . .what?
As an ex-police officer from many years ago in a previous life, I ALWAYS ticketed a nice-looking woman if I pulled one over.
I did so for two specific reasons:
1) She did something wrong to begin with, and,
2) If I let her go then yahoos (like husband/boyfriend/or both, would make a charge like you did; i.e, she was only pulled over because she was good looking and let go without a ticket because she was good looking.
Heck, a police officer can't win. . .pull someone over and give a ticket and the cop is a dick, and pull someone over and not give a ticket and the cop is oogling the female driver.
Safest course of action these days for a police officer is to ticket everyone they pull over, especially good-looking women and minorities.
'Nuff said.
To: MineralMan
That's the boring solution. And will get you run off the road in Tucson, there are chunks of road here where 15 over will get your doors blown off.
64
posted on
07/15/2003 1:00:51 PM PDT
by
discostu
(the train that won't stop going, no way to slow down)
To: mvpel
Another tip to use when in court is to tell the judge that you were driving in a reasonable & safe manner. I once got a ticket for not using my turn signal to change lanes....I was the only one on the road besides the cop who was at least a half a mile behind me....on a clear stretch of highway....I didn't say anything when he gave me the ticket. But, once in court I asked him...."Who was I supposed to be warning with that signal that I was changing lanes?" "Was there anyone else on the road?" "How far away were you from my car?"
The officer stammered, blushed and the ticket was dismissed.
In Ca, even if you don't beat the ticket in court....they give you the option of traffic school. There are plenty of one day classes...the best are the Comedy Traffic School classes.....unless you can find one that will just sign off for you and you don't have to attend at all.
65
posted on
07/15/2003 1:03:25 PM PDT
by
Feiny
(I know everything, but don't understand any of it.)
To: BrooklynGOP
Cops use their discretion for each others friends and family for things like moving violations.
66
posted on
07/15/2003 1:06:30 PM PDT
by
newwahoo
To: mvpel
Best advice is don't get pulled over.
Get a GOOD radar detector, such as an Escort or Passport.
I haven't been pulled over for speeding in years...ever since I got my Passport.
67
posted on
07/15/2003 1:08:44 PM PDT
by
demsux
To: feinswinesuksass
In California the law specifies that you're only required to use your turn signal if there's someone else there who might be affected by your maneuver. We're lucky in that respect, I suppose.
68
posted on
07/15/2003 1:08:54 PM PDT
by
mvpel
(Michael Pelletier)
To: demsux
Just got myself a Cobra 6870 11-band, and bought my brother a 10-band Cobra for his birthday a month ago. Just yesterday he managed to avoid a CHP Ka gun on his way to Sacramento - the detector paid for itself right there.
One interesting thing, though, is that the San Francisco Bay Bridge seems to generate a large amount of X-band hits. Our theory is that they're using automated X-band devices for traffic flow measurement, so they can tell when and where traffic suddenly slows down due to an accident or some such.
69
posted on
07/15/2003 1:12:02 PM PDT
by
mvpel
(Michael Pelletier)
To: Trust but Verify
To top it all off, our insurance premiums are already sky-high because we have 2 teeneged drivers!! I wouldnt expect your husbands ticket to have much impact then.
It would usually depend on whether you have more drivers than vehicles, believe it or not. Most people dont realize it but its nearly universal that auto insurance companies assign the highest-rated driver to the highest-rated vehicle.
So if dad has a new Lexus and mom has a new Lincoln and the two kids share an 88 Supra, the way the insurance company will typically determine the rates is to assign kid #1 to the Lexus, kid #2 to the Lincoln, and dad to the Supra. Its nearly universal. It doesnt matter that the kids primarily drive the Supra.
Some preferred carriers dont do it that way. Some companies will assign you to your primary vehicle. Some will even let you specifically exclude junior from being assigned to dads car but they generally require you to sign a waiver.
In essence, with a single violation hes not going to be rated higher than a teen. So even though hed now be rated higher than he was, hell (~97% of the time) be assigned to one of the lower rated vehicles. That assumes hes assigned to one at all.
It also assumes his higher rating doesnt bump everyone into a different tier or something. That was all the rage a few years back designing a ton of different tiers.
But by all means, fight it if you want. Sounds like a lot of work to me though. Ha.
70
posted on
07/15/2003 1:12:35 PM PDT
by
Who dat?
To: BrooklynGOP
I think you can postpone two or three times but check with the court to make sure. Bring the proof with you. It can't hurt and maybe it'll help.
71
posted on
07/15/2003 1:13:16 PM PDT
by
newwahoo
To: newwahoo
I also won't write someone with their kids in the car. The one and only time I got pulled over, I was driving in a rural area northeast of Austin, chatting with my wife and young son as I drove. I happened to miss the speed limit drop from 65 to 50 at the edge of this wide-spot-in-the-road town, but as soon as I realized where I was, I slowed down immediately -- but too late. The officer who pulled me over asked if I realized how fast I was going. I explained what had happened -- that I had been getting quality time with my family on the way to a camping trip (the car was loaded with camping gear as well), and didn't notice for a couple of seconds that I had crossed the city limits. He looked in, and saw that everything appeared to be as I told him. A big smile, then: "Ya'll have a nice day!" We did, after that. :-)
To: MineralMan
Sure-fire method to avoid speeding tickets:Don't speed.
That usually works, but not always. One time I got a ticket for exceeding 55 in rural San Luis Obispo county, even though I was not speeding. I think he gave me a ticket just because it was 2:30 in the morning (I had just gotten off work).
I went to court, and was found not guilty, as the CHP officer who was driving (and could read the speedometer) couldn't remember all the details, and was relying on hearsay from his partner.
73
posted on
07/15/2003 1:17:16 PM PDT
by
B Knotts
To: mvpel
Our theory is that they're using automated X-band devices for traffic flow measurementI wonder -- would it be cost-effective for a city to set up x-band devices in problem areas just to "ping" cars with radar detectors and get them to slow down? Dunno if anyone does that already.
To: All
remember
were you speeding is a yes or no question.
The rate of speed goes to dollar penalty.
To: newwahoo
Ok, will do. Thanks.
To: newwahoo
I have to say though that the scariest drivers I've dealt with so far are the ones that can't speak english. How they get licenses is beyond me. A lot of states administer the tests in the native (non-English) languages.
77
posted on
07/15/2003 1:23:59 PM PDT
by
cinFLA
To: newwahoo
I have to say though that the scariest drivers I've dealt with so far are the ones that can't speak english. How they get licenses is beyond me. Getting my DL in Korea required an interview with the district 'magistrate'. It was touch and go as I spoke no Korean and he spoke very little English. He wanted to 'test' me but finally just pulled out his stamp and sent me back to the clerk's window. One photo and a few won later I had my license.
78
posted on
07/15/2003 1:26:57 PM PDT
by
cinFLA
To: discostu
"That's the boring solution. And will get you run off the road in Tucson, there are chunks of road here where 15 over will get your doors blown off.
"
Not really. I'm in Tucson every year, and I obey the speed limits there, just like I do everywhere else. I keep to the right, except to pass, and obey the law. Why would I do otherwise?
79
posted on
07/15/2003 1:29:36 PM PDT
by
MineralMan
(godless atheist)
To: mvpel
"That's certainly your perogative, as it's your insurance premiums and and your drivers license at risk."
Indeed. And if you are so concerned about these things, the answer is simple. Don't speed.
80
posted on
07/15/2003 1:29:47 PM PDT
by
MEGoody
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