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It pays to avoid a ticket -- or fight one
MSN Money ^
| July 15, 2003
| Chris Solomon
Posted on 07/15/2003 11:22:14 AM PDT by mvpel
The best advice is simply not to speed, at least not brazenly. But if you get nailed, fight it -- because a $50 ticket can cost you thousands once your insurer gets wind of it.
By Chris Solomon
Now is a very bad time to have a lead foot.
States facing yawning budget gaps are finding new money by pinching speeders more frequently -- and pinching them harder, too. Texas lawmakers recently added $30 to fines for speeding tickets. California has added a surcharge of between $7 and $20, depending on the severity of the violation. And the Illinois Legislature is set to tag an additional $4 to the cost of a minor speeding ticket.
True, four more bucks wont change your life, but the fine is usually the least of your worries. Even one speeding ticket can begin to turn your name to mud in your insurers eyes. More than one can cost you thousands of dollars in higher premiums.
Insurance companies say punishing speeders is well warranted: In one study, California drivers with one speeding citation in a three-year period had a crash rate 50% higher, on average, than those with no infractions -- and the crash rate more than doubled for those who had two or more tickets, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the Highway Loss Data Institute, industry-sponsored research groups.
A ticket from Johnny Law does seem to slow people down, at least for a bit. A study of Ontario traffic statistics, published in the British medical journal the Lancet, found that a conviction for a moving violation cut the risk of a fatal crash in the following month by 35%. The benefit evaporated by four months after the conviction. Assigning penalty points to a drivers license -- especially for speeding tickets -- reduced the risk of fatal crashes more than convictions without penalty points.
Keeping your nose clean
Still, as long as running late is an American pastime, people will speed. And there are ways to protect yourself and your premiums. First, reduce your likelihood of getting snagged by the speed gun in these ways:
- Know thyself. Spend $5 to request your driving record from your states Department of Motor Vehicles. Is it accurate? Could you face a suspension hearing if you get convicted for one more violation? Then call your insurer. Find out what a slip-up would mean to your rates.
- Penny-wise = pound foolish. Police will frequently key on an auto that has problems such as broken headlights, taped-over taillights or a missing front license plate. Spend $3 to replace a burned-out license plate bulb and you may save hundreds of dollars later, says Matisyahu Wolfberg, a policeman-turned-traffic defense attorney in New York.
- Stay incognito, Part I. Driving an arrest-me red sports car doesnt guarantee youll get pulled over, but it doesnt help avoid police, say defense attorneys. Ditto -- albeit to a lesser degree -- any expensive car. Consider a Camry over a Corvette and you may save money in more than the showroom.
- Stay incognito, Part II. Ignore the general pace of traffic at your own peril. Youre a pack animal; dont stick out of the pack, says Casey Raskob, a Croton-on-Hudson, N.Y., attorney who focuses on traffic-related cases. Passing police cars is verboten. Stay in the right lane when possible.
- Keep your eyes peeled. Scan your rear-view mirror often while driving. Look for possible spots far ahead where a patrol car could hide. Also, watch how professional truckers drive, and slow down when they do; theyve got far more experience detecting Smokey.
- Dont be sticker shocked. Pasting a Police Benevolent Association sticker to the rear window isnt a license to speed. That jig is long up, says Raskob. Wisecracking bumper stickers -- Bad Cop; No Donut -- wont endear you to The Man, either.
The traffic stop and its aftermath
You get pulled over anyway. Now what do you do?
- Be polite. Most of the time, the motorist has very little chance. The officer has already has made up his mind, says Wolfberg, the former cop. The only real chance the driver has is to be nice. Act peeved and a trooper may give you the full fine. Some will also flag the citation with a notation, like ND -- a note to a prosecutor or to himself (in some states, law-enforcement officers act as prosecutors in traffic court) to give a loudmouth no deal in court.
- Dont admit guilt. The absolutely fatal question is, Do you know why I stopped you? says attorney Mark Sutherland, co-author of the book Traffic Ticket Defense. Authorities can use any admission of guilt against you when you contest the ticket (see below). For other things to consider during a traffic stop, see hints on the Web site of the National Motorists Association, a drivers rights group (see the link at left under Related Sites).
- Once home, dont immediately pay the ticket. Simply paying the fine, an admission of guilt, could cost you dearly in insurance rates. Doubt it? Lets say youre an experienced driver in California with a single-car policy and a good driving record, who is paying the average rates statewide for liability, collision and comprehensive coverage, $765 annually. If you were a Prudential Financial customer youd get a 25% good-driver discount and pay only $574. One speeding ticket would mean a roughly 27% increase from the base premium, says Prudentials Laurita Warner -- a $207 annual increase, or $621 more over three years. (Surcharges usually last for three years.)
Get a second minor conviction and your premium would rise an additional 40%, and youd also lose your good-driver discount, says Warner. Suddenly, a premium that was $574 has ballooned to $1,071. After the third conviction, expect to pay roughly 63% more than you originally did, or $1,247. Over three years you would end up paying $2,020 more than if youd kept your nose clean, or much more than the fines themselves. Clearly, getting pinched leaves a painful scar.
The pain can be even worse if youre a teenager or young adult. Getting even one speeding ticket, much less two, can cause a dramatic spike in your insurance rates -- sometimes doubling and even tripling those rates -- and jeopardize your ability to get preferred insurance rates, says Karl Newman, president of the Washington Insurance Council, a consumer education group funded by member insurance companies in Washington State. That could require you to purchase high-risk insurance.
Luckily, youve got several initial options once busted:
- Ignoring the ticket isnt one of them. It used to be if you obtained a ticket in New York, it didnt get back to New Jersey, but thats no longer true, says Raskob. Avoid a ticket and a warrant may be issued for your arrest -- a warrant that appears even on the computer system of your hometown cops.
- Special state programs. Talk to your states DMV or local traffic court to find out about ways to erase your ticket. In Rhode Island, for example, if you havent had any vehicle-related violations in three years and then receive a minor one (for example, for exceeding the speed limit by less than 20 miles an hour), you can ask that the ticket be dismissed. It usually is. In some southern states, authorities will agree to defer judgment, if you dont get any more tickets for the next six months.
- Traffic school. Often your best alternative is to take a six- to eight-hour safety course for drivers. Policies vary by state, but often a minor speeding conviction can be wiped from your record and therefore go unseen by your employer or insurance company. Youll still have to pay the fine, plus an additional $50 to $80 in tuition and other costs, and invest a Saturday. Some states such as California let drivers take the course online. Traffic school has its limits, however. In some states, its an option only once every 18 or 24 months. In others, those caught exceeding the speed limit by more than 15 to 20 mph may not be eligible, says David Brown, author of the book Beat Your Ticket.
Should you go to court?
If the above options arent available, go to court. Court doesnt have to be a Perry Mason experience. Simply asking for your day in traffic court can save you money. Count the ways:
- Showing up is half the battle. Only about 3% of all tickets are contested, estimates Brown, which means even a few people showing up to challenge a ticket can jam the system. A lot of times the courts will change the ticket for you, to encourage you not to go to court -- sometimes reducing a moving violation to a lesser charge that your insurance company wont penalize you for, says Eric Skrum, spokesman for the National Motorists Association.
- Cop no-shows. If you show up on your assigned date, defense attorneys say that in 20% to 25% of cases the ticket-writing officer won't. If the officer is required to show up (jurisdictions have different rules), no appearance usually means the ticket is thrown out. No-shows by police happen even more in summer, when even they take vacations.
- Errors matter (sometimes). While courts will often excuse minor errors on a ticket -- a misspelled name, a quibble over whether your Jag is ochre or orange -- if the officer cites the wrong statute on the ticket, or grossly misidentifies the highway or your make of car, you may to get your ticket dismissed, says Skrum. Its often best to keep mum about the gaffe until you go to court, however, and reveal the mistake after the officer has recounted the wrong information.
- An 'A' for effort. If you do get all the way to a magistrate or traffic commissioner, any reasonable objection you have to the ticket is likely to at least reduce the amount of the fine, and perhaps change it to an infraction that wont hurt your rates. Youve got to fight every ticket, because the only thing anyone will ever know is what you reduced it to. The accusation will be lost in the courthouse, says Raskob.
The above, soft approach often works, but some people prefer to aggressively contest the ticket, which they usually do with at least some success. When [Freeper] Michael Pelletier, a 32-year-old computer systems engineer in the Bay Area, got a ticket a few years ago, he rented the nine-pound (!) legal defense kit from the National Motorists Association. (The rental cost of the packet, which is tailored to the requesters state, is $50 per month, with a discount for NMA members.)
The only thing I did was crank the legal crank, says Pelletier. That meant asking for continuances and requesting records -- proof of when the officers radar gun was last calibrated and when the officer was trained in its use -- in hopes of finding a flaw in the authorities case, or simply wearing them down until they offered a deal.
A pre-emptive strike
Battling in court can be time-consuming and complicated. Pelletier estimates he invested nearly 50 hours in the year 2000 to fight his ticket, which he received driving his motorcycle 47 miles an hour in a 25 mph zone. He got it dismissed seven months later based on an esoteric legal definition of a local street or road.
In Pelletiers eyes, the struggles are worthwhile despite the time commitment. He has also helped his wife and brother keep three citations from their records, and his insurance company recently upgraded him to a superior driver, which means he will pay $70 less in the next six months than he had been paying. And by keeping his driving record clean hes ensured that his next ticket -- if it sticks -- wont hurt him so much as it might have.
If you dont have the time to do all of this research, consider hiring an attorney who frequently deals with speeding tickets. Such an attorney will know how to get the best deal for you and can often appear in court for you, so you dont have to take a day off to do so. Fees can vary from $75 to $750, in part depending on whether theyre already frequently in the courthouse dealing with such matters.
The free piece of advice they give, however, is the same: Confront your speeding ticket, even if its your first, and do your darnedest to make it disappear. After all, they add, you never know when youll get your next one, with higher premiums close behind.
TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: insurance; police; speeding; tickets
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To: Gerish
"Regardless, it really makes the average Joe angry when police officers want respect from people and run around writing up bogus tickets to fill their quota for the month."
There is no need to write bogus tickets when so many people drive like maniacs. No one thinks they deserve a ticket, its always the other guy. My dad has never received a ticket in many decades of driving because he never deserved one.
41
posted on
07/15/2003 12:25:25 PM PDT
by
newwahoo
To: steveegg
There is a website you can go to that gives information on court activity in Wis. You can pull up traffic convictions by county and date. I have never seen a speeding ticket for ANY amount over be $75.
To: BrooklynGOP
Sounds good to me, Brooklyn. Good luck!!
To: BrooklynGOP
You might have a shot. Showing up is a good start. Do you have the ticket with you right now? If you do look at the lower right hand corner and see if the tax reg. number begins with a 93, 92 or 91....
44
posted on
07/15/2003 12:28:48 PM PDT
by
newwahoo
To: newwahoo
The problem is, instead of going after the people who are driving like maniacs, they hide out on the side of the road and pluck people out of the smooth-flowing prevailing speed of traffic that just happens to be higher than the arbitrary posted speed limit.
45
posted on
07/15/2003 12:29:31 PM PDT
by
mvpel
(Michael Pelletier)
To: mvpel
I've been pulled over about a half dozen times over the last 17 years. The last time I had a ticket that stuck was in 1986. I do a lot of driving for work (as much as 500 miles a week) and I do get burned in the occasional speed trap. But almost everytime I get pulled over, I get just a warning. I do sport an American flag on my back window and a Marine Corps bumber sticker. Maybe that has something to do with the cops giving me a break. Or maybe it's that I'm unfailingly polite to the officer and readily admit that I might have been going a "bit too fast." Cops evidently aren't used to that kind of honesty so they might be more inclined to give you a break.
The one time I did get a ticket, I fought it and showed up in court with a shirt and tie and yes-sired and no-sired everybody. During my testimony, I made sure to point out that the police officer who stopped me was very professional and polite but mentioned that perhaps in an honest mistake, he overestimated my speed.
Others showed up in sneakers and jeans and had sort of a slovenly and sloppy appearance. I got my ticket dismissed. Don't know about the others but I don't think they fared as well as they had sour expressions as they shuffled out of the hearing room.
A cheerful positive attitude is key in this whole process. Cop an attitude and you'll be stuck with an expensive ticket - no doubt about it.
46
posted on
07/15/2003 12:30:09 PM PDT
by
SamAdams76
(Back in boot camp! 245 (-55))
To: newwahoo; Gerish
The first & last ticket I got was in 1973. It wasn't even a moving violation. I don't drive nuts. I don't drink and drive. I drive at or under the speed limit. I signal my turns. I don't cut people off. I stop at yellow, not red. Stuff like that.
I have gotten parking tickets, only because the parking meter guys & gals who patrol the courthouse square have superhuman powers and are standing at my car the SECOND the meter goes to 0:00. This claim is also repeated by anyone who has gotten a ticket at courthouse square.
47
posted on
07/15/2003 12:30:52 PM PDT
by
Catspaw
To: mvpel
Be polite. Most of the time, the motorist has very little chance. The officer has already has made up his mind, says Wolfberg, the former cop. The only real chance the driver has is to be nice. Act peeved and a trooper may give you the full fine. Some will also flag the citation with a notation, like ND -- a note to a prosecutor or to himself (in some states, law-enforcement officers act as prosecutors in traffic court) to give a loudmouth no deal in court.BS in my experience. If you are a nice looking lady a LEO, you will get a break.
48
posted on
07/15/2003 12:31:55 PM PDT
by
TankerKC
(I guess I missed your point.)
To: Trust but Verify; newwahoo; Gerish
Actually I just mailed the ticket in this morning. What do those numbers mean (93,92,91)?
Oh.. And after that ticket, 15 mins later, right next to my work there is yet another checkpoint. I got pulled over but they let me go. So something was definately up with checkpoints that day. This was July 10th, I think. Anything special going on July 10th, newwahoo?
Also, this is my first ticket, and I have had my license since 18 (I am 25). Would this be a factor?
To: mvpel
I'm going to fall back on one of my usual responses when it comes to LE matters in other area. NYC is a unique place and my experiences so far often don't match up with how things are in rural areas and small municipalities. I could write yellow cabs all day long without even touching the great mass of aggressive and dangerous drivers here. We don't really need to pull out one guy from a group thats moving a bit faster than the posted limit.
I have to say though that the scariest drivers I've dealt with so far are the ones that can't speak english. How they get licenses is beyond me.
50
posted on
07/15/2003 12:37:22 PM PDT
by
newwahoo
To: mvpel
Cop no-shows. If you show up on your assigned date, defense attorneys say that in 20% to 25% of cases the ticket-writing officer won't. If the officer is required to show up (jurisdictions have different rules), no appearance usually means the ticket is thrown out. No-shows by police happen even more in summer, when even they take vacations.
If I'm not mistaken, the ticketing writing officer always has to be present, or the ticket can't be prosecuted. I know it's that way in Cleveland.
Another thing to keep in mind is questionable tickets. I got one for "shortcutting an intersection" when I turned around in a parking lot to get on a freeway instead of going 20 blocks in the wrong direction to get on at the "official" exit (only one side of our street has a ramp and the median blocks a left turn). A common practice at our company.
-I looked up the text of the city ordinance....it referred to an intersection.
-I looked up the definition of an "intersection" in the Ohio Revised Code. It didn't cover turning around and going back onto the same street.
I was ready to not only challenge the ticket but when I won, ask the judge to forbid further tickets from being written at that location for that offense.
The officer didn't show.
I figure they write these questionable tickets and don't show up. That way they can continue to collect quota points from the people who waiver the tickets, and don't get told to cut it out.
-Eric
51
posted on
07/15/2003 12:40:09 PM PDT
by
E Rocc
(Reality is to liberals what garlic is to vampires.)
To: TankerKC
If you are a nice looking lady or a LEO, you will get a break.
52
posted on
07/15/2003 12:42:32 PM PDT
by
TankerKC
(I guess I missed your point.)
To: TankerKC; newwahoo
BS in my experience. If you are a nice looking lady a LEO, you will get a break. Yea, what's up with that? Also a co worker of mine has his detective friend's card. He got pulled over speeding, no seatbelt and his paperwork was expired and he got *NO* summons after flashing the card.
To: BrooklynGOP
This drives me crazy. I have a brother and two sisters who are LEOs. None of them ever gets a ticket, though they drive like nuts. I have never been pulled over without getting a ticket (that's 4 times in 24 years).
54
posted on
07/15/2003 12:49:32 PM PDT
by
TankerKC
(I guess I missed your point.)
To: TankerKC
Get their cards and put them next to your license, so when you pull it out the p.o. sees it. I hear it works for a lot of people. Maybe I need to get one of those :P
To: mvpel
If I get a ticket for speeding, I wouldn't fight it unless I WASN'T speeding.
56
posted on
07/15/2003 12:51:43 PM PDT
by
MEGoody
To: BrooklynGOP
"What do those numbers mean (93,92,91)?"
Tax registry numbers are issued to use like social security numbers. The higher the number the newer the cop. Anyone with a tax ID number that begins with those three sequences is either from my class or from the one before mine and is still new to giving testimony.
"Anything special going on July 10th, newwahoo?"
Not as far as I know. But despite what the city says they have been giving overtime assignments to officers just to write moving violations. That can be good or bad. The guy may be really good at testimony which would be bad for you. He also may have taken the assignment trying to boost his income just before retirement. If you delay the court appearance as long as possible he may retire in the interim and "say f*ck the goddamn city" (pretty much the opinion of most veteran cops here) and not show up. Then the whole thing would get tossed.
"Also, this is my first ticket, and I have had my license since 18 (I am 25). Would this be a factor?"
If you're found guilty the judge will probably give you a break. You're a good driver at an age when many are not. I'd concentrate on the cop's testimony. Ask the judge to make him slow down if necessary. If he says he was 200 hundred feet away ask him how he was sure that he saw your car (especially if it was a color like gray) and not someone elses. Did he see your plate? How clearly marked was the lane? Were all the stripes on the lane still there or were they worn off in spots? Ask him how many hours he had been working that day and how many cars had he already pulled over. A ticket is not an especially memorable thing to us and you have to use that and the passage of time to punch holes in his testimony.
57
posted on
07/15/2003 12:53:02 PM PDT
by
newwahoo
To: mvpel
Just a funny story
A friend of mine was pulled over for having a tail light out in Chicago in 1974. She was dressed like a hippie and the cop indicated her sex on the ticket as "male".
When she got to court she pointed out the error and the judge said: "The court apoligizes for the error, did you repair your tail light?" (She obviously didn't have a lawyer)
She said; "No, It wasn't broken"
The officer then explained to the judge that he observed that it was indeed broken.
My friend said: "If he couldn't tell I was a woman after talking to me and looking at my license, (she dressed VERY well for court) It's understandable that he also couldn't tell that my tail light was working properly."
The judge said: "I'm going to have to agree with the defendent." the ticket was dismissed.
I was there with her to experience her justice.
To: mvpel
If I remember correctly, in California, when getting the ticket you can demand to have the "trial" at the county seat rather than the location where the ticket is issued. This can force the cop to travel a greater distance and they are not likly to do it.
59
posted on
07/15/2003 12:57:44 PM PDT
by
Drango
(Just 5ยข a day will end pledge drives on FreeRepublic.)
To: newwahoo
If you delay the court appearance as long as possible Yep. I got the same advice from somebody at work. 2 is the max numbef of times I can postpone the appearence, right? Ask him how many hours he had been working that day and how many cars had he already pulled over. A ticket is not an especially memorable thing to us and you have to use that and the passage of time to punch holes in his testimony. Well, given that he was lying he is not going to go from memory but will just say whatever.. This happened at about 8:45am (I was going to work). Another thing, the only reason why someone would want to drive on the shouler is because they'ld want to skip the traffic and get to the exit, given that I don't exit for like another 5-6 exits to get to work, should I bring proof of my place of work? Last question, I promise :)
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