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It pays to avoid a ticket -- or fight one
MSN Money ^
| July 15, 2003
| Chris Solomon
Posted on 07/15/2003 11:22:14 AM PDT by mvpel
The best advice is simply not to speed, at least not brazenly. But if you get nailed, fight it -- because a $50 ticket can cost you thousands once your insurer gets wind of it.
By Chris Solomon
Now is a very bad time to have a lead foot.
States facing yawning budget gaps are finding new money by pinching speeders more frequently -- and pinching them harder, too. Texas lawmakers recently added $30 to fines for speeding tickets. California has added a surcharge of between $7 and $20, depending on the severity of the violation. And the Illinois Legislature is set to tag an additional $4 to the cost of a minor speeding ticket.
True, four more bucks wont change your life, but the fine is usually the least of your worries. Even one speeding ticket can begin to turn your name to mud in your insurers eyes. More than one can cost you thousands of dollars in higher premiums.
Insurance companies say punishing speeders is well warranted: In one study, California drivers with one speeding citation in a three-year period had a crash rate 50% higher, on average, than those with no infractions -- and the crash rate more than doubled for those who had two or more tickets, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the Highway Loss Data Institute, industry-sponsored research groups.
A ticket from Johnny Law does seem to slow people down, at least for a bit. A study of Ontario traffic statistics, published in the British medical journal the Lancet, found that a conviction for a moving violation cut the risk of a fatal crash in the following month by 35%. The benefit evaporated by four months after the conviction. Assigning penalty points to a drivers license -- especially for speeding tickets -- reduced the risk of fatal crashes more than convictions without penalty points.
Keeping your nose clean
Still, as long as running late is an American pastime, people will speed. And there are ways to protect yourself and your premiums. First, reduce your likelihood of getting snagged by the speed gun in these ways:
- Know thyself. Spend $5 to request your driving record from your states Department of Motor Vehicles. Is it accurate? Could you face a suspension hearing if you get convicted for one more violation? Then call your insurer. Find out what a slip-up would mean to your rates.
- Penny-wise = pound foolish. Police will frequently key on an auto that has problems such as broken headlights, taped-over taillights or a missing front license plate. Spend $3 to replace a burned-out license plate bulb and you may save hundreds of dollars later, says Matisyahu Wolfberg, a policeman-turned-traffic defense attorney in New York.
- Stay incognito, Part I. Driving an arrest-me red sports car doesnt guarantee youll get pulled over, but it doesnt help avoid police, say defense attorneys. Ditto -- albeit to a lesser degree -- any expensive car. Consider a Camry over a Corvette and you may save money in more than the showroom.
- Stay incognito, Part II. Ignore the general pace of traffic at your own peril. Youre a pack animal; dont stick out of the pack, says Casey Raskob, a Croton-on-Hudson, N.Y., attorney who focuses on traffic-related cases. Passing police cars is verboten. Stay in the right lane when possible.
- Keep your eyes peeled. Scan your rear-view mirror often while driving. Look for possible spots far ahead where a patrol car could hide. Also, watch how professional truckers drive, and slow down when they do; theyve got far more experience detecting Smokey.
- Dont be sticker shocked. Pasting a Police Benevolent Association sticker to the rear window isnt a license to speed. That jig is long up, says Raskob. Wisecracking bumper stickers -- Bad Cop; No Donut -- wont endear you to The Man, either.
The traffic stop and its aftermath
You get pulled over anyway. Now what do you do?
- Be polite. Most of the time, the motorist has very little chance. The officer has already has made up his mind, says Wolfberg, the former cop. The only real chance the driver has is to be nice. Act peeved and a trooper may give you the full fine. Some will also flag the citation with a notation, like ND -- a note to a prosecutor or to himself (in some states, law-enforcement officers act as prosecutors in traffic court) to give a loudmouth no deal in court.
- Dont admit guilt. The absolutely fatal question is, Do you know why I stopped you? says attorney Mark Sutherland, co-author of the book Traffic Ticket Defense. Authorities can use any admission of guilt against you when you contest the ticket (see below). For other things to consider during a traffic stop, see hints on the Web site of the National Motorists Association, a drivers rights group (see the link at left under Related Sites).
- Once home, dont immediately pay the ticket. Simply paying the fine, an admission of guilt, could cost you dearly in insurance rates. Doubt it? Lets say youre an experienced driver in California with a single-car policy and a good driving record, who is paying the average rates statewide for liability, collision and comprehensive coverage, $765 annually. If you were a Prudential Financial customer youd get a 25% good-driver discount and pay only $574. One speeding ticket would mean a roughly 27% increase from the base premium, says Prudentials Laurita Warner -- a $207 annual increase, or $621 more over three years. (Surcharges usually last for three years.)
Get a second minor conviction and your premium would rise an additional 40%, and youd also lose your good-driver discount, says Warner. Suddenly, a premium that was $574 has ballooned to $1,071. After the third conviction, expect to pay roughly 63% more than you originally did, or $1,247. Over three years you would end up paying $2,020 more than if youd kept your nose clean, or much more than the fines themselves. Clearly, getting pinched leaves a painful scar.
The pain can be even worse if youre a teenager or young adult. Getting even one speeding ticket, much less two, can cause a dramatic spike in your insurance rates -- sometimes doubling and even tripling those rates -- and jeopardize your ability to get preferred insurance rates, says Karl Newman, president of the Washington Insurance Council, a consumer education group funded by member insurance companies in Washington State. That could require you to purchase high-risk insurance.
Luckily, youve got several initial options once busted:
- Ignoring the ticket isnt one of them. It used to be if you obtained a ticket in New York, it didnt get back to New Jersey, but thats no longer true, says Raskob. Avoid a ticket and a warrant may be issued for your arrest -- a warrant that appears even on the computer system of your hometown cops.
- Special state programs. Talk to your states DMV or local traffic court to find out about ways to erase your ticket. In Rhode Island, for example, if you havent had any vehicle-related violations in three years and then receive a minor one (for example, for exceeding the speed limit by less than 20 miles an hour), you can ask that the ticket be dismissed. It usually is. In some southern states, authorities will agree to defer judgment, if you dont get any more tickets for the next six months.
- Traffic school. Often your best alternative is to take a six- to eight-hour safety course for drivers. Policies vary by state, but often a minor speeding conviction can be wiped from your record and therefore go unseen by your employer or insurance company. Youll still have to pay the fine, plus an additional $50 to $80 in tuition and other costs, and invest a Saturday. Some states such as California let drivers take the course online. Traffic school has its limits, however. In some states, its an option only once every 18 or 24 months. In others, those caught exceeding the speed limit by more than 15 to 20 mph may not be eligible, says David Brown, author of the book Beat Your Ticket.
Should you go to court?
If the above options arent available, go to court. Court doesnt have to be a Perry Mason experience. Simply asking for your day in traffic court can save you money. Count the ways:
- Showing up is half the battle. Only about 3% of all tickets are contested, estimates Brown, which means even a few people showing up to challenge a ticket can jam the system. A lot of times the courts will change the ticket for you, to encourage you not to go to court -- sometimes reducing a moving violation to a lesser charge that your insurance company wont penalize you for, says Eric Skrum, spokesman for the National Motorists Association.
- Cop no-shows. If you show up on your assigned date, defense attorneys say that in 20% to 25% of cases the ticket-writing officer won't. If the officer is required to show up (jurisdictions have different rules), no appearance usually means the ticket is thrown out. No-shows by police happen even more in summer, when even they take vacations.
- Errors matter (sometimes). While courts will often excuse minor errors on a ticket -- a misspelled name, a quibble over whether your Jag is ochre or orange -- if the officer cites the wrong statute on the ticket, or grossly misidentifies the highway or your make of car, you may to get your ticket dismissed, says Skrum. Its often best to keep mum about the gaffe until you go to court, however, and reveal the mistake after the officer has recounted the wrong information.
- An 'A' for effort. If you do get all the way to a magistrate or traffic commissioner, any reasonable objection you have to the ticket is likely to at least reduce the amount of the fine, and perhaps change it to an infraction that wont hurt your rates. Youve got to fight every ticket, because the only thing anyone will ever know is what you reduced it to. The accusation will be lost in the courthouse, says Raskob.
The above, soft approach often works, but some people prefer to aggressively contest the ticket, which they usually do with at least some success. When [Freeper] Michael Pelletier, a 32-year-old computer systems engineer in the Bay Area, got a ticket a few years ago, he rented the nine-pound (!) legal defense kit from the National Motorists Association. (The rental cost of the packet, which is tailored to the requesters state, is $50 per month, with a discount for NMA members.)
The only thing I did was crank the legal crank, says Pelletier. That meant asking for continuances and requesting records -- proof of when the officers radar gun was last calibrated and when the officer was trained in its use -- in hopes of finding a flaw in the authorities case, or simply wearing them down until they offered a deal.
A pre-emptive strike
Battling in court can be time-consuming and complicated. Pelletier estimates he invested nearly 50 hours in the year 2000 to fight his ticket, which he received driving his motorcycle 47 miles an hour in a 25 mph zone. He got it dismissed seven months later based on an esoteric legal definition of a local street or road.
In Pelletiers eyes, the struggles are worthwhile despite the time commitment. He has also helped his wife and brother keep three citations from their records, and his insurance company recently upgraded him to a superior driver, which means he will pay $70 less in the next six months than he had been paying. And by keeping his driving record clean hes ensured that his next ticket -- if it sticks -- wont hurt him so much as it might have.
If you dont have the time to do all of this research, consider hiring an attorney who frequently deals with speeding tickets. Such an attorney will know how to get the best deal for you and can often appear in court for you, so you dont have to take a day off to do so. Fees can vary from $75 to $750, in part depending on whether theyre already frequently in the courthouse dealing with such matters.
The free piece of advice they give, however, is the same: Confront your speeding ticket, even if its your first, and do your darnedest to make it disappear. After all, they add, you never know when youll get your next one, with higher premiums close behind.
TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: insurance; police; speeding; tickets
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative
I wonder -- would it be cost-effective for a city to set up x-band devices in problem areas just to "ping" cars with radar detectors and get them to slow down? Dunno if anyone does that already. Me.
A few years back I built a simple little single transistor X band oscillator, tuned it to 10.525 GHz, mounted it in a small Bud box, and powered it from a 9v battery. It's about the size of a garage door opener. Press the button when a radar detector equipped car blows by, and it's like having a remote control hooked to the other guy's brakes.
To: Trust but Verify
If the speed limit sign indicating the legal speed was above 49 MPH was visible from the point where he was ticketed and he can show this in court, then he stands a good chance for a dismissal; one other little trick is to simply ask the judge or the officer while you are in the docket to place into the record the date of the last official traffic survey for that section of road or highway where the ticket was issued; if it is way out of date, old, then the court is required to consider your speed relative to the road conditions and you may get a dismissal based simply on the failure of the state to keep up to date surveys to justify lower than legal highway limits.
To: mvpel
Great tips! I've learned them the hard way. I'm still on higher insurance rates even though my license has been clean for two years. Over the Fourth of July holiday my husband was pulled over twice in his company rental car. The offense? Having a NY Statue of Liberty plate on his car. They changed plate designs and the Statue of Liberty is persona non grata as of mid-May. You can, however, pay to keep your plates, which he did. He got one ticket and he gets to tell it to the judge 7 hours away in the northern Adirondacks.
To: Old Professer
Someone else told me essentially the same thing. Seeing the stop was quite literally on the edge of town, this could very well be an issue. We must go back to the scene and see if that is the case.
To: Drango
Wrong; any admission in court of excess speed gets you a guilty verdict.
To: Old Professer
Wrong; any admission in court of excess speed gets you a guilty verdict. If I knew how to contact the lawyer in Iowa who gave me the wrong advice, I'd let him know...
126
posted on
07/15/2003 6:51:13 PM PDT
by
Drango
(Just 5ยข a day will end pledge drives on FreeRepublic.)
To: Fester Chugabrew
If the signs do not met DOT standards you have to bring the FMVSS (federal motor vehicle safety standard) to court with you) Pictures too. The deal should be written. Be careful judges can be VERY ignorant when it comes to traffic law. (safety nazi's rule there)
Generally once a private community is developed, the development signs a "domestication" agreement with the local police department. this gives them authority over the roads and makes the roads public. No agreement then the roads are private land and police may not write citations. Use
http://www.findlaw.com to search you state's specific rules. Check with the police department for the agreement.
Make preliminary motions to dismiss BEFORE your actual trial. If the Judge offers a "Withhold" or some non-adjudication result you should consider taking it. It should prevent the citation being used in a civil matter. Remeber NEVER SAY GUILTY. No contest, perhaps if the deal is right.
If you want a record consider hireing a court reporter. Generally 50-75 per hour. Not all traffic tickets hearings are recorded. Not all traffic cases involve prosecutors. Its about revenue NOT justice.
To: newwahoo
Yes, there are people out there who do drive like maniacs and they deserve tickets. However, I see no need for police to set up these so called "seatbelt roadblock checks" or whatever you want to call them. A DWI roadblock is fine for that certainly is warranted for the safety of other people. It is when the police use the reasoning of checking cars to make sure people are wearing seatbelts that bothers myself and a lot of other people, and that is where people start to lose respect for them. With all the crime around, you would think these officers would have better things to do than check and see if people are wearing seatbelts. Are they looking for criminals? No, they are looking for stupid minor infractions so they can write a ticket and keep the fat cats in the government happy with more revenue!
I'm not trying to bash the police here, I know they have a job to do and deserve much credit for the work they do. However, I just believe these seatbelt checks make their image to the public unfavorable.
128
posted on
07/15/2003 6:56:29 PM PDT
by
Gerish
To: mvpel
"Spend $3 to replace a burned-out license plate bulb and you may save hundreds of dollars later."
I know of police departments who throw out a ticket if a person agree's to fix a burned out license plate bulb within twenty four hours.
To: Catspaw
don't know about where you live, but a few years back here, i got a parking ticket because i put money in the wrong meter. very tight parking lot and with double meters...came out of the courthouse and saw the ticket, i tried to talk to the "lady" riding around in the cushman scooter truck and she was very snide and said well just take me to court and you will lose and pay the $4.00. I immediately went to the city police station and asked when traffic court was, and the lady wanted to know why. I told her i had been given a ticket even though i had put money in the meter although mistakenly the wrong meter and wanted to fight it in court. She said let me see your ticket and i handed it to her and she wrote VOID on it and told me to have a nice day and that she was sorry i had a bad experience with the parking patrol.
To: Trust but Verify; mvpel; steveegg; Catspaw
Any advice for my husband who recently received a speeding ticket from a rent-a-cop Sorry about the barrage of questions but may I ask what a "rent-a-cop" is? Are they deputized (and therefore "real" cops)? Do you they have the power to arrest? Do you have to stop for them?
To: mvpel
One interesting thing, though, is that the San Francisco Bay Bridge seems to generate a large amount of X-band hits.X-band includes the 3 cm radars used on most ocean-going ships. I wouldn't be suprised if you're picking up shipboard emmissions reflecting off the cables on the bridge.
132
posted on
07/15/2003 10:46:48 PM PDT
by
GATOR NAVY
(20 years in the Navy; never drunk on duty - never sober on liberty)
To: longtermmemmory
"Make preliminary motions to dismiss BEFORE your actual trial.Is an omnibus hearing the same as a trial? We've got a week until the omnibus hearing. Should all the evidence be gathered by then?
To: cinFLA
Brit Air is good, no sarcasm.
Never flown the Asian lines, but always hear they are wonderful.
Bottom line: American carriers seem to be getting worse.
To: BrooklynGOP
"Cops can pull you over and give you a ticket for *anything* they want."
You mean whatever they imagine.
To: Gunrunner2; cinFLA
"Brit Air is good."
BA is good, although the seats seem to lack an inch or two front to back space than other airlines.
Virgin Atlantic is also exemplary.
Aer Lingus is better than either. The staff has sense and is free to use it.
Duds and drags unmentioned.
It's the airport searches which are the choke points. Unfortunately ships don't do it these days.
(Experiences within the last 8 months.)
To: Spirited
I have flown Virgin before and it was pretty darned good (clean, airy cabin, friendly staff). My contract allowed me Premium Economy and it was pretty nice, though Business Class is even better, and I agree with you, Brit Air seems a bit small, and in Economy some of the seats actually ARE smaller if they are near the back or are bulkhead. I was in the UK and BBC did a report on seat sizes and found this to be true.
Nice to be in the front of the jet, as not only are the seats bigger and more comfortable, I find the staff to be nicer. . .either UK air carriers or US.
I probably should look into Aer Lingus, but have several hundred thousand miles on Brit Air and kinda got used to them.
Will be flying Brit Air again within two moths and will let you know.
Though, Brit Air "limits" the weight of your carry on to 11 kilo's for Business (9 for economy). This is enforced in London but not outbound flights from the US. I loath to check luggage and pack smart, so this usually doesn't cause any problems when in Business, but I don't like the fact that they established different weights for different classes of travel, for the same sized bag.
Anyway, thanks for your comments.
To: Fester Chugabrew
BUMP
To: timestax
ping
To: Fester Chugabrew
yes, you should have as much evidence with you at all hearings. You do not do this every day. Generally LEGAL motions based on law are heard at preliminatry hearings. Motions based on law and the documents in the file.
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