Diabetes Diet War (Hint: High carbing doesn't work)

US News ^ | 7/14/03 | Dara Mayers

[Nov3]

Diabetes diet war
The nutrition advice given to most diabetics might be killing them

By Dara Mayers
The bible says "make starches the star." That's the Diabetes Food and Nutrition Bible, published by the American Diabetes Association. "Grains, beans, and starchy vegetables form the foundation of the Diabetes Food Pyramid. The message is to eat more of these foods than of any of the other food groups." For 17 million Americans with diabetes, diet is a crucial part of treatment, And what the ADA bible preaches, many doctors, nutritionists, and patients believe.

But what if the ADA's high-starch diet--another way of saying high-carbohydrate--is not healthy for people with diabetes but harmful to them instead?

This possibility is now the source of heated debate in the diabetes community. It is "the most controversial aspect of diabetes treatment today," says Scott King, editor-in-chief of Diabetes Interview magazine. How controversial? "Malpractice!" is how physician and diabetes specialist Lois Jovanovic, chief scientific officer of the Sansum Medical Research Institute in Santa Barbara, Calif., describes conventional high-carb nutrition advice.

Excerpted, click for full article

[Ancesthntr]

Thanks, both of you, for your replies. And no, chilepepper, I certainly don't object to your input (quite to the contrary).

I have often thought about why the US population is so fat, and why we have so much heart disease. Certainly our sedentary lifestyle, as compared to the past, has something to do with it. After all, when the typical American was in a farm family, or in some other manual labor job, they burned a bunch more calories than the average person does now. Heck, even the amount of walking that they did compared to us would do that. Additionally, all of that manual labor builds muscle, which also burns lots of calories (approx. 50 per day per pound of muscle).

However, there's obviously a lot of incorrect nutritional information - so much so that I have come to the conclusion that the AMA and the drug industry are behind this. Why? Well, the answer is obvious: MONEY. There's an old rule in politics, which can pretty much be applied across the board in human activities: if you want to know what's going on and who is doing what to whom, follow the money. I firmly believe that both of these organizations WANT people to be sick, because it enriches them. They don't want you to die too soon - that would interrupt their revenue stream and feed the funeral industry - but they'd love for most people to have one or more serious conditions that require continuous care, lots of drugs and occasional surgery. The FDA bureaucrats also have a hand in this - they get job security from all of the new wonder drugs that are continuously winding their way through the approval process - and probably get a good (which is to say, high-paying) job with some drug company as a "consultant" after they retire (esp. if they are "cooperative"). Add to the mix the Social Security Administration - they want people to drop dead early, because this saves them $10,000-$20,000 per year per person (this is, to change the topic just a bit, part of the reason why the Fedgov will always subsidize the tobacco industry - the other part being the enormous tax revenue generated by the sale of each pack).

So, how do you best do this? By conditioning people to believe that eating one particular way is best for them, when the reality is quite different. This is relatively easy to do, since most people don't know very much about medicine or nutrition. Further, people are conditioned from their earliest years to listen to authority figures - put a white lab coat on someone (preferably a middle-aged white guy), call him doctor, and have him make a very definitive statement about something scientific or medical, and 95% of the people will believe that they just received the Ten Commandments from G-d Himself.

Another part of the equation is to scoff at the very substantial body of evidence which points to the preventative and restorative benefits of vitamins, minerals and Essential Fatty Acids. And, NO, I'm not talking about all of these exotic herbs like the New Age wackos - I'm talking about stuff that's been studied seriously by a lot of doctors and scientists that truly care about the public's health. Check out the website for the Life Extension Foundation at http://www.lef.org to get lots of valuable information (and look at how thoroughly the articles are researched - this is impressive to me).

My prescription for a long and healthy life is:

1) Nutrition: reduce carbs, especially simple sugars, to a minimum. When you have carbs, make sure that you consume fats and/or protein with them. Have lots of EFA's - fish, fish oil or flax products. Avoid too much in the way of saturated fat, but have lots of olive oil and other monounsaturates. Have lots of fiber (though not at the same meal with the EFA's). Avoid trans-fatty acids like the plague. Avoid caffeine and avoid tobacco. Have lots of vitamins, etc. - research this to see where you are deficient. Drink lots of water.

2) Exercise: do something nearly every day. You need a balance between aerobic and non-aerobic. Walk, jog, swim or bicycle 5 or 6 times a week, and on the 3 days a week when you do some weight training do a bit less of the aerobics.

3) Sleep: this is one of the keys, and the area where most people fail (myself included). Sleep is key to a strong immune system, to digestion and to building muscle and repairing physical damage.

4) Avoid stepping in front of Mack trucks, etc.

Just my $0.02.

[Old Professer]

I think the BMI has been changed too far to reflect overweight patterns where health-issue are not evident.

[SamAdams76]

Interesting comments and I certainly agree with your prescription for a long and healthy life!

I too have a rather harsh opinion of the AMA (and medical community in general) but I don't believe that they have malicious intentions to keep the majority of us unhealthy so that they can run up our medical bills. No, I can't imagine doctors wanting to do that. However, I think that they are in CYA mode on this whole issue of nutrition and basically stuck in a web of lies that they can't easily extricate themselves from.

Consider that they have been pushing that damned food pyramid upon us for decades now with its 7-9 servings of grains (or whatever the number is) per day. They can't very easily come out now and say "Gee, we had it wrong all these years. Eating lots of grains and carbohydrates is bad for you. Using concentrated corn syrup as a sweetener isn't such a hot idea after all. And by the way, hydrogenated vegetable oil isn't very good either, better switch from that margarine we've been telling you to eat all these years to butter."

If they did that, all hell would break loose. There would be a feeding frenzy (pardon the pun) of the likes you have never seen before. Thousands of lawsuits would be filed overnight. Malpractice lawsuits too against individual doctors of obese patients and/or those with Type II diabetes.

The medical community can't afford to open themselves up legally and financially like this. So it is in their interest to leak the news out slowly. Already, we are seeing studies showing that low-carb diets are effective in curing obesity and controlling medical conditions such as high blood pressure and diabetes. Yet they are not giving such studies big publicity. Yet. Then, years from now, when it finally dawns on the masses that low-carb is the way to go, they can always pull a Bill Clinton and say "Low-carb diets? Oh, that's old news. We were talking about this years ago. Here are some of the studies we did back then to prove it..."

[retrokitten]

Food Pyramid Guide by the National Agricultural Library

6-11 Servings of grains?? Then they wonder why kids are overweight.

[El Sordo]

Writing this spot down....

[.38sw]

6-11 servings of grains, breads, cereal and pasta is unbelievable. When I was on Weight Watchers several years ago, I was allowed 4 servings in the Bread group per day. Four. That is one slice of bread (and not the large slices that many types of bread have now), half a cup of cooked rice, 1 oz. of cereal. 6 to 11 is huge. That's hundreds of grams of carbs per day. It's a prescription for obesity.

I did lose weight on WW's, but I was HUNGRY all the time, so I couldn't keep it up. Once I stopped, I gained back all the weight and then some. Now I'm on Dr. Scott Connelly's Body RX, which is high protein, fairly low carb. Carbs in vegetables, many fruits, some breads and cereals (high fiber) are allowed, up to 100 to 200 grams per day to begin with, depending on your weight, then being reduced as you progress, again according to your body weight. It's working for me, and I'm not ravenously hungry all the time like I was with WWs.

[retrokitten]

Oh I totally agree with you about WW! I have done it several times, too, and I have lost weight, but I was hungry all of the time. I think I did the program you did back in the late 80's/early 90's. There were little boxes and we were alotted certain servings, like 4 bread/grain, 3 meat, 3 fruit, etc. With thier newer "points" system they basically let you eat whatever you want until you run out of points. If you want to eat a McDonalds hamburger 3 times a day, that's okay because it's in your points range.

My sister in-law lost close to 100 pounds on WW in a really short period of time, about 9 months. She was very thin for about 3 months. Then she gained it all back in about as much time as she lost it. She's now back to her pre-WW weight and then some. We don't really get along, but I know she feels like garbage because of it. She and my brother both really like to cook (he's a professional chef), so I don't know why they don't at least try low-carb out. He's also very overweight.

Like I said earlier, I before I got side tracked, I lost 25 pounds initially on Atkins, my mom lost 35 and my dad 25. Even my husband who was eating more vegetable and less bread and pasta, because it wasn't in the house lost a little weight (he's one of those people who can eat anything and not gain weight).

Having been on WW's before and now on a low-carb plan have you noticed that the weight loss is more noticible with a low carb plan then a low-fat/cal plan? I'm really tall and no one usually notices that I have lost anything until I lose around 20 pounds. When I first started Atkins before I lost 9 pounds in the first 2 weeks and it was very noticible. I think it's because, like someone else said, lets go of alot of the water it's been holding on to and people start to look less "puffy". Just curious if anyone else had noticed this, too.

[crazykatz]

Try avocados they have 'C'.

I hate orange anything!! And, mint as well.

I love the taste of lemon in my unsweet tea!!

I am just as sweet as I need to be already... no need to add sugar!! : ^ )

[Farnham]

And you smell like a bottle of nail polish remover lol

Actually, it's more like eau'd cat pee, but thank you for noticing. Yes, showering regularly IS a part of this diet.

[El Sordo]

Try this stuff: http://www.earthbalance.net/

[afraidfortherepublic]

Well, you've encouraged me to start today, and I'd appreciate any further tips you all can give me along the way.

I bought 2 Atkins books this morning before work, and the first thing I noticed was the link that Dr. Atkins notes between weight gain and certain medications -- especially Hormone Replacement Therapy and blood pressure medications. No other doctor recognizes that fact.

I worked for Weight WAtchers for many years and was successful with keeping my weight down until HRT, and then it went out of control. I no longer take those pills, but it is awfully hard to get the weight off once it's on. The new WW doesn't seem to heop -- it's too liberal.

[afraidfortherepublic]

BTW, I noticed the medication induced weight plateaus when I worked for WW. HRT and Prednisone were the worst. The people would swear they were following the diet slavishly and still not show a loss, and often a gain at the scales. Once I went on HRT, I found the same problem. I am no longer on it (I had been told that it was necessary for heart health -- totally bogus) but I still find it hard to take off the pounds that have packed on.

I have to admit that I am not following WW any more. WW is excellent for younger women. I think I still would have gained weight had I continued, but not as much as I have. I used to watch the other leaders and receptionists starve and cheat before the monthly weigh in, so I know others had problems too. And the older you are, the harder it becomes.

[retrokitten]

I was on anti-depressent several years ago and I gained weight on them. I'm not on them anymore, but the weight is still here and hard to get rid of.

I just restarted on Monday. Thankfully, I am no longer craving pie! LOL It was still difficult to walk past the vending machine with those Grandma's Lemon Cheesecake cookies staring at me, but I did it. I know it gets easier down the road.


Read the book all the way through before starting.
Drink lots of water.
Take your vitamins.
Stick with it! The first two weeks are the hardest.
Carbolite bars and candies are sent from Heaven, but eat them sparingly. LOL!

[.38sw]

I don't know how much i've lost since my scale is still in a box in the garage (we moved, and i haven't unpacked everything yet). I know I've lost some weight since my pants are looser, and a few mentioned have asked me if I've lost weight. It's not really noticeable yet, though, because I too am very tall. I did mention that I'm not doing Atkins - I just couldn't live with it. But I eat almost no refined carbohydrates now, and that makes a real difference. I also walk every day now, and that helps, too. Another thing that helps is that we have a garden and a ton of yard work to do. So, instead of hitting the snacks in the couple of hours before dinner (my toughest time), I'm out gardening and working in the yard. It's a great diet aid!

[SamAdams76]

Good luck with it. Allow me to suggest taking a multivitamin during your program. Don't have to run out tonight and get them (I didn't start taking them until six weeks into my program) but it is a good idea to ensure your body is getting all the nutrients it needs now that you will be eating less foods.

Don't get the cheap "One-a-day" vitamins at the supermarket. Get a real comprehensive multi-vitamin, the kind that requires you to take three a day. You might need to go to a health store to find them. I use the Complete Nutritional Plan by Rainbow Light. It is food-based and has about 60 vitamins and minerals and all sorts of herbs and bee pollen and stuff like that. I definitely notice a difference since taking them and now I don't have to worry about not getting certain vitamins that I might be missing.

They costed me $30 for a bottle of 180-tablets (60-day supply) but the way I look at it, it's fifty cents a day. Certainly when looked at that way, it's worth fifty cents a day to ensure I am getting all my nutrition.

[Ladysmith]

Hey, thanks for the explanation! Incredibly interesting points you gave there. I really appreciate it.

So you're saying the amount of sodium one takes in isn't the problem, it's the high carb foods that are? Yes, some days are continuous trips to the bathroom, yesterday was one of them for some reason. I do drink primarily water and lots of it, once in a blue moon I have Diet Rite soda. Frankly, all the trips to the bathroom leads me to believe the lymph system is doing it's job, hopefully it's mostly through my legs. Sounds like it's also an indication that the insulin levels are getting back to "normal," whatever that may be. Can insulin levels get too low?

Being in the first stage of lymphedema, I do wear support hose all day and tube socks at night to keep the lymphs working continuously. (Now I have another question - what's the difference between edema and lymphedema? Got to do a search.) I've been told it can't be cured, only maintained so it doesn't get worse. Maybe... Being pretty stubborn about this one - maybe it won't be cured completely but accepting it the way it is now is NOT an option! I'm fighting for some improvement somehow and hoping the Atkins diet might help. Was the loss of your right foot the cause of your edema? Is it actually lymphedema you deal with? I'm wondering, thinking that the path for your lymph system has been disrupted at that point.

Someone else on this thread mentioned that avacados have potassium so I'm going to start including those in my salads. But potassium supplements may be the way to go - any suggestions of what and how much daily?

And again - thanks! A little ray of hope where this condition is concerned! :o)

[A_perfect_lady]

The older you are... boy isn't that the truth. When I was in my early 20s, I'd just starve for a week or two and melt like a candle. But that was the 1980s, and I think something has happened to the Earth's gravity in the interim!

For myself, the hardest thing to overcome isn't hunger, it's the desire to be nibbling on something or drinking something every darn minute. I do sometimes get a teaspoon of peanut butter and lick away at it, very slowly, for a snack. I can make it last for about 20 minutes.

[sinkspur]

Natural peanut butter is very good for you, and is on the Atkins diet.

I'm a wine lover, and I've got some things I've tried for those out there who like it, and want to stay on Atkins (as I do).

First red is best; there's more sugar in white, especially the sweeter whites. A chardonnay is almost like a red in terms of sugar.

Wait until late in the meal before your first glass (yes, you can have more than one). And, NEVER drink water and wine at the same meal.

Why is that? Wine is metabolized at a slower rate since the alcohol is absorbed by other foods. The metabolic process will be even slower if the foods ingested are proteins (as they primarily always should be). The slower the digestion process, the less fat will be stored, and the longer your hunger will be sated.

Drinking water and wine dilutes the alcohol and facilitates its absorption into the blood stream, and speeding up its metabolization.

I've actually found that wine is better for digestion than water. Water dilutes the natural gastric juices.

I've started not drinking anything (wine, water, lemonade) until 30 minutes after eating and have dropped another two pounds in the last month. This must be due to waiting until after eating to drink anything; I haven't changed anything else.

One thing's for sure: that pre-dinner cocktail can put you on a weight-loss plateau. Yes, just one drink on an empty stomach can do that, Atkins or no.

[A_perfect_lady]

Wait until late in the meal before your first glass (yes, you can have more than one). And, NEVER drink water and wine at the same meal... Wine is metabolized at a slower rate since the alcohol is absorbed by other foods.

Wow... this is good stuff!! Thanks!

[sinkspur]

Well! Another satisfied Rainbow Light customer!

I buy 'em here , pretty cheap.

It's about the cheapest place on the web for RL.