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Putting a name to it
Newhouse News Service ^ | Jun. 21, 2003 | Mark O'Keefe

Posted on 06/21/2003 2:11:24 PM PDT by Dubya

As Muslim groups push for Americans to add "Islamic" to the phrase "Judeo-Christian," the argument about how to describe our values heats up

Leading Muslim organizations say it's time for Americans to stop using the phrase "Judeo-Christian" when describing the values and character that define the United States.

Better choices, they say, are "Judeo-Christian-Islamic" or "Abrahamic," referring to Abraham, the patriarch held in common by the monotheistic big three religions.

The new language should be used "in all venues where we normally talk about Judeo-Christian values, starting with the media, academia, statements by politicians and comments made in churches, synagogues and other places," said Agha Saeed, founder and chairman of the American Muslim Alliance, a political group with headquarters in Fremont, Calif.

Other national Muslim groups supporting a change include the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the Muslim American Society and the American Muslim Council.

The budding movement is largely unformed, and religion watchers question whether it will succeed. Still, the call for new terms shows that words carry huge symbolic importance for Muslims trying to find their role in a post-9-11 and post-Iraq-war America.

"These are not just let's-make-you-feel-good words," Saeed said. "These are words that define how we're related to each other."

Others take offense, arguing that to alter the phrase "Judeo-Christian" is political correctness and revisionist history at its worst.

"A lot of the ideas that underpin civil liberties come from Judeo-Christian theology," said the Rev. Ted Haggard of Colorado Springs, Colo., president of the National Association of Evangelicals. "What the Islamic community needs to make are positive contributions to culture and society so we can include them."

Michael Cromartie, vice president of the Washington-based Ethics and Public Policy Center, said a "Judeo-Christian understanding of things like freedom of conscience and liberty" are embodied in the Constitution. "No offense intended," he said, "but Muslims weren't a part of that, even though they're part of the discussion now."

The conflict illustrates the power of words, especially those touching on religion, national history and identity.

In a 2002 survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life and the Pew Research Center for People and the Press, two-thirds of respondents said they consider the United States a "Christian nation" and 58 percent said the strength of American society is based on the religious faith of its people.

But only 14 percent said it is essential that a person believe in "basic Judeo-Christian values" in order to be a good American.

From its founding to the late 1940s, the United States was commonly described as Christian.

According to a 1984 scholarly article by religion writer Mark Silk, "Judeo-Christian" wasn't used to refer to a common American outlook of values and beliefs until World War II, when the supposedly Christian Nazis and their death camps made future references to "our Christian civilization" sound ominously exclusive.

" 'Judeo-Christian,' which in 1952 looked like an incredibly inclusive term, doesn't look very inclusive now," said Silk, director of the Greenberg Center for the Study of Religion in Public Life at Trinity College, in Hartford, Conn. "So we probably need a new term."

But, Silk acknowledged, "I think Judeo-Christian-Islamic is going to be hard for the public to accept at this moment when you've just had people attacking the United States in the name of Islam."

While "Judeo-Christian" may not be used with the frequency heard in the 1950s, it's still a part of the vernacular.

The movement to drop or change the phrase has some non-Muslim support, including the head of the National Council of Churches.

The Rev. Bob Edgar, general secretary of the council, which represents 36 Christian denominations, said he prefers "Abrahamic" to "Judeo-Christian-Islamic" because it "rolls off the tongue a little easier."

"The more inclusive we can be, the more committed we are to the founding fathers and mothers who struggled with the issue of respect for each other's religious faiths," Edgar said.

Other arguments for change are:

• Numbers. The U.S. Muslim population is growing. Estimates are disputed but range as high as 7 million. (The Jewish-population estimate is 5 million.)

"Muslims are here, and there are 7 million of them, even though they're largely invisible to most Americans," said Saeed. "This necessitates some discussion about language."

• Commonality. Even though many people emphasize the differences, Islam has similarities with Christianity and Judaism.

"We believe in heaven and hell, in doing good deeds, in following the Ten Commandments," said Hannah Hawk, a spokeswoman for the Houston Muslim Public Affairs Council. "Islamic values are not only compatible with American values, they're almost identical. I, personally, believe the most Islamic country in the world is America, where we believe in freedom of religion, freedom of the press and equality of all."

• Diplomacy. When President Bush mentions "churches and synagogues," he's quick to add "mosques," but many Islamic nations still perceive the United States as a Christian country bent on dominating Muslims in a modern-day crusade. An inclusive change of language could alter that view, said Zahid Bukhari, director of Muslims in the American Public Square at Washington's Georgetown University.

"It would convey a very positive message that it's not an issue of us vs. them because Muslims are here," Bukhari said.

• History. Some assert that African Muslims were among the slaves brought to America. In addition, some argue that Islamic ideas helped shape the European West, which produced the values cherished by the Constitution's framers.

"What we call Western culture is in fact based on Muslim Middle East culture, but the average American doesn't know that," said Sharifa Alkhateeb, president of the Washington-based Muslim Education Council.

Alkhateeb, a consultant for textbook companies and school systems across the country, doesn't like "Judeo-Christian-Islamic" because it excludes other minority religions. But she finds "Judeo-Christian" as outdated as calling pluralism and multiculturalism "just having blacks and whites together."

Every time she meets public officials, whether Secretary of State Colin Powell or a small-town legislator, she asks them to include Muslim names and places in their speeches.

"It's exactly in those little things that people gain recognition as human beings or lose it," said Alkhateeb, who is also the founder of the North American Council for Muslim Women. "The Jewish movement in this country made people allergic to mention even a single word that could possibly be construed as anti-Jewish, and people don't even think about such words, much less speak them, now.

"How did that happen? One inch at a time, exactly as Muslims are trying to change the language now."

Osama Siblani, an influential voice among American Muslims and publisher of the Arab-American News in Dearborn, Mich., takes an even broader view.

"I believe we should call this the United States of America, made up of Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Muslims, Christians, Jews and others," said Siblani. "This stuff about language has to stop. We are all just Americans."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abrahamic; judeochristian; muslimamericans; values
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RELIGION NEWS SERVICE

Sharifa Alkhateeb, president of the Muslim Education Council, says that whenever she meets elected officials, she urges them to add Muslim names and places to their speeches.

1 posted on 06/21/2003 2:11:25 PM PDT by Dubya
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To: All

2 posted on 06/21/2003 2:13:17 PM PDT by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: Dubya
how to describe our values

There is NOTHING Islamic about my values.

ML/NJ (American)

3 posted on 06/21/2003 2:18:50 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: Dubya
You had your chance about 800 years ago and screwed the pooch. Now change or get out of the way.
4 posted on 06/21/2003 2:24:46 PM PDT by arkfreepdom
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To: ml/nj
Mine either.
5 posted on 06/21/2003 2:24:58 PM PDT by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: Dubya
Spin. This is just spin to get included in something they had no hand in building. How long before this gets into the classrooms and the children are taught that Hamilon and Washington were really Muslims??

6 posted on 06/21/2003 2:34:09 PM PDT by Noachian
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To: Dubya
What about this annoys me the most?

Is it this part: "Muslims trying to find their role in a post-9-11 and post-Iraq-war America."

Which they have obviously found to be the crying of VICTIM! VICTIM! VICTIM! and what America should do differently to suit them, and never what they should do differently to suit America.

Or is it this part: Hannah Hawk, a spokeswoman for the Houston Muslim Public Affairs Council [says] "...I, personally, believe the most Islamic country in the world is America, where we believe in freedom of religion, freedom of the press and equality of all."

YEAH, RIGHT. Sure, so many Islamic countries exhibit these characteristics, that, based on those Islamic countries America is the LEAST Islamic country of all. Becaus in Islamic countries you have NO freedom of religion, NO freedom of the press and NO equality. ESPECIALLY FOR WOMEN (emphasis added to penetrate dense feminists heads).

Let's face a few facts folks. Islam tells the Abrahamic story, but 100% backwards. According to the Koran, it was the OTHER son Abraham was told to sacrifice, and the rabbit hole starts there. I know almost nothing about the Bible (blame the Catholic Church wherein I was raised Bible-ignorant) but I got this from Time Magazine. So, there is a really BIG conflict between the Judeo-Christian and the Mohameddan version of religious history.

You know, we got millions of Hindus in our country, and millions of Buddhists. Why don't we hear millions of whines from these folks? And face another fact here, these religions (like Judaism) are non-converting faiths. The Muslims actively seek to convert, by whatever means necessary, as we see around the world. We hear whines from the Athesists, to be sure, but now also from the Muslims. Because I think another fact needs to be faced, they come from a culture of UNTRUTH. Just the one quote from the lady given is a bald-faced lie. They seek to convert (by force if needed) and they lie about it.

Our Judeo-Christian nation will be led down the road to Islamic peridition if we fail to recognize the false face of Islam that CAIR and other groups would put on their plan for TOTAL WORLD DOMINATION.

7 posted on 06/21/2003 2:37:21 PM PDT by jocon307 (You think I exagerate? You don't know the half of it!)
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To: Noachian
It probably want be long.
8 posted on 06/21/2003 2:38:33 PM PDT by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: jocon307
Big AMEN.
9 posted on 06/21/2003 2:39:09 PM PDT by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: Dubya
Hannah Hawk, a spokeswoman for the Houston Muslim Public Affairs Council. "I, personally, believe the most Islamic country in the world is America, where we believe in freedom of religion, freedom of the press and equality of all." BS, BS, BS, Hannah, have you ever been to saudi arabia, "home" of islam? (I lived there for one year.) There is NO allowance for Christians or Jews or Buddists. No religious worship, or symbols, that are NOT islamic. No freedom of the press. And certainly the only equality is for fellow muslims. Saudi Arabia, is a repressive country, as are most muslim countries.

YOU muslims will NEVER be part of this country until your clerics and leaders stop preaching death to the "great satan" and approving fatwas for homicide bombers. Personally, you can all go back to your islamic homelands, and the sooner the better. You practically own France. BUT it will not happen here. Diversity, is only on your terms.
10 posted on 06/21/2003 2:50:05 PM PDT by Tahoe3002
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To: jocon307
Amen, Jocon307, convert or die. The shittes (sp?)and sunni muslims have been fighting and dying for centuries (just as have the Irish Catholics and Protestants). In the Sudan and other islamic countries with a Christian population, there is civil war mainly by the muslims upon the Christians, because the Christians will not convert.
Indeed, the muslims are the ones who captured slaves and sold them in and out of Africa.

Religion of Peace??? BS, total BS! And I wish GWB would quit spoutting this line of dung.
11 posted on 06/21/2003 2:57:35 PM PDT by Tahoe3002
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To: Dubya


The term Judeo-Christian wasn't implemented to be inclusive, but rather to DESCRIBE the values and the foundations that shaped this nation. Islam has cotributed virtually nothing to the foundations of the United States.
12 posted on 06/21/2003 3:14:51 PM PDT by gitmo (I really miss the Constitution.)
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To: Tahoe3002
And they can kiss my A$$.
13 posted on 06/21/2003 3:16:19 PM PDT by Taylor42
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To: Dubya
"Muslims are here, and there are 7 million of them, even though they're largely invisible to most Americans," said Saeed. "This necessitates some discussion about language."

No it doesn't. There. Hope that clarifies things. Next issue?

14 posted on 06/21/2003 3:17:51 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
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To: Dubya
"These are not just let's-make-you-feel-good words," Saeed said. "These are words that define how we're related to each other."

There is absolutely zippo relationship between Judeo-Christian civilization (aka Western civilization) and Islam. As a matter of fact, the modern radical Islamic code is to destroy every hint of Judeo-Christian/Western civilization, tradition, and thought.

These people are delusional, but they seem to be succeeding in the culture of victimization.

15 posted on 06/21/2003 3:55:00 PM PDT by WarEagle
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To: Dubya
And, the faggots are urging that the word "Pansy" be included, as well. They recognize that while homosexuals may not have made the same contribution to western thinking as Jews or Christians, it would just be the right thing to do.
16 posted on 06/21/2003 4:26:55 PM PDT by Tacis
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To: Dubya
Our values are Judeo-Christian. Our values are not built upon murdering our neighbors, rather on loving our neighbors. Therefore, we have little in common with terroristic, murdering islamic values.
17 posted on 06/21/2003 4:51:03 PM PDT by abclily
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To: All
The article is a piece of "cr**". Apparently they know little of their own history and less about ours.
18 posted on 06/21/2003 4:57:00 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: jocon307
The Muslims actively seek to convert, by whatever means necessary

The other half of the argument is that Muslims who convert to other religions are guilty of apostasy (which carries an automatic sentence of death). Same penalty to anyone who attempts to induce a Muslim into apostasy.

Yeah, they share our Judeo-Christian sense of freedom and liberty. </SARCASM>

19 posted on 06/21/2003 5:02:01 PM PDT by Procyon
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To: Dubya
I will never say that, never.
20 posted on 06/21/2003 5:03:35 PM PDT by ladyinred (The left have blood on their hands.)
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