Posted on 06/17/2003 5:58:35 PM PDT by Radix
Edited on 04/13/2004 2:10:05 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
What was the greatest scientific idea of all time? The answer, I think, is clear: Evolution by natural selection, conceived more or less simultaneously by Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace in the mid-19th century. It was their genius to imagine a way diverse organisms could arise from simple ancestors by purely natural process.
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
Enter the high-speed digital computer.It is now possible to create artificial organisms -- self-replicating computer programs -- that meet the three requirements for evolution: replication, random mutation, and competition. These artificial organisms go through thousands of generations in minutes or hours of computer time, and every step of the process can be observed. They evolve surprisingly complex structures.
Trying to argue from the realm of metaphysics or, in this case, from the realm of bits and bytes and imaginary organisms composed of bits and bytes, into the real world is the essential logical fallacy of the ontological proof of the existence of God.
The medieval version of that logic went thus:
God is that, than which, nothing greater can be conceived. Now, if I can conceive of such a thing as an abstract concept which did not exist or correspond to anything in the real world, then I could also conceive of such a thing which DID exist, making the first case a contradiction of terms and effectively proving the existence of God.
Again, this entire system of logic was disproven in the middle ages. Why are evolutionists now trying to ressurect it?
He did indeed. The laws of nature are His apparent methods.
Are you more offended by Evolution, than say General Relativity?
While there are those (minority) who use religion for this purpose, I wouldnt make such a blanket statement.
Religion and Science are two (very) different approaches to the truth. The truth cannot contradict truth.
Unfortunately there are people who think Science is some great atheist conspiracy to disprove God.
I know many scientists (biologists/geneticists) who have strong faith. No conspiracy would be possible.
Then (sans natural and environmental selection) why haven't species (determined genetically) changed over the eons? How much time does evolution need? 65 million years (since the last extinction event) doesn't seem long enough. And why do species so suddenly appear in huge numbers after an extinction event, having no connection to pre-event species?
Sorry to ask so many questions, but evolutionary answers seem to lead to more questions.
If this actually happened, where are all of the 1/4 gill-wings and 2/3 wing-gill fossils? If gills stand at one point on the time line, and wings at the other end, where in the record of nature are the many, many points between the two? Where are the fossils?
Some extinction’s are caused by drought, others by a strong predator domination, by earth pollution, by people pollution, by volcanic activity, by deforestation, floods, El Nino, El Nina.
Nature is brutal, whether as a result of man or just her nasty self. Has been since the fall.
She breaks off branches of the evolutionary tree
She takes out life forms indiscriminately
She shakes, she bakes, she rakes, she takes
Without the slightest worry
She erodes, she corrodes, those humble abodes
Killing critters like she's the motherlode
She gushes, then flushes so many you'll see
Till it's to late for them critter's to turn and flee
There ain't no reason to believe
She's got more than one thing to conceive
Death and destruction with such power and awe
She's waxing old like a garment from the 2nd law
No, I said "An intelligent creator".
Dinosaurs??! What, you think a creator who bought the entire universe into being would have trouble "making" dinosaurs? What's your point related to dinos?
OK, G2 may start out as a recap but it quickly goes out of order with G1
In G1 Plants were made on the Third day (before the sun no less but that's for another time), Animals came on the 5th and then Man & Women on the 6th while in G2 it's clear man came first and it wasn't until later that everything else was created.
It's not something obscure I am latching on to, It is a clear as day condradiction. The reason for this is most likely the creation story in the bible is a combination of different previous stories.
Oh yeah it says right there, God grew and presented Adam with a Garden called Eden, Oh then he created one of every animal before Adam so that he could name them. Guess God didn't want Adam to be confused about who the Creator was, showing off and all.
Another story that makes no sense, Even if Adam did live to 900+ years how could he possibly name every animal, There are 1,000,000+ different types of beetles alone, He would still be naming animals to this day and still not be close to finishing them.
And also all animals?? From the sound of it the Garden of Eden appears to be like a tropical paradise so how were animals that live in extreme climates able to live side by side with each other. i.e. Polar bears and Penquins living side by side with Camels and Aligators.
Eve came latter and didn't get to witness all that...Hmmmm wonder if that’s why she was the one to be deceived?
Oh well, works very cleanly for me, but then I ain't no longer a skeptic.
Well, I could argue it wasn't Eve that was deceived but Adam!!! God told Adam the day you eat from the tree is the day you shall surely die while the devil told Eve that if you eat from the tree you won't die but gain knowlegde. Well they ate from the tree and what happened?? They gained knowlege and didn't die, Ok ignorance may be bliss in this instance but in this story it was still God who lied and tricked Adam while the devil told the truth to Eve who correctly saw through the deception.
And I suppose you "listen" to the devil even today to get the "straight scoop"? Most people I know who listen to/follow the devil have the most horrible lives. He does not seem to take care of His own very well.
Isn't it fascinating how they come to such conclusions?
Yeah I am amazed in the 21st century people can still hold on to unproven or disproven thousands of years old beliefs and the extremes they go to hold on to those beliefs.
That's one of the problems with the bible, There is nothing in it that goes beyond the limited scientific knowledge of the time it was written
The moon gives off it's own light instead of reflecting it from the sun, Stars are not bodies like our sun but instead they are little lights stuck on a Solid firmament around the Earth and they can fall down anytime. Diseases aren't caused by bacteria and viruses (which despite their importance to humans aren't even mentioned in the bible)but instead are caused because God is punishing you (BTW, Who on the Ark got to carry the clap). Same with birth defects.
Now you would think if there was a God controlling our fate and the bible is his word you would think there would be at least some scientific insights beyond what was already known considering that God would know people would be reading it well into the future.
This clearly shows that it was not written by a all knowing and powerful god but instead it was written by man in his own attempt to explain the Universe.
But then again, they never cease to amaze me with their arrogance and just plain old..... ignorance, that is about the best word that I can come up with right now.
Aren't these debates fun?
Yes they can be fun, But they are also scary, Because if people can ingnore evidence and delude themselves into beliveing something like creationism over science including the lies (Like the 2nd law BS) that go with it than they can believe anything.
Which like I pointed out in a previous thread that people who believe in Liberalism are really the same as people who believe in creationism. They are both ignoring evidence and basing their entire belives on blind faith. Despite all evidence and even if their actions make X-problem worse Liberals will still believe if they could just funnel more money into X-government program than X-problem will be solved.
And anybody who doesn't subscribe to their faith are evil, In case of the Liberals it's the Conservatives that are evil with creationist it's evolutionist.
Also another danger by promoting stuff like creationism and other religious stuff over science will be the surest way for the Republicans to lose any future power they may gain.
What's the point of getting rid of the omipresent, controlling "Big" Government if all you are going to replace it with a omipresent, controlling "Big" religion.
It is a clear as day condradiction.
Ok, let me find the contradiction:
Chapter 2 is a closer examination of what happened on day six starting in verse 7. It says, referring to day six, God created Adam then He grew the Garden of Eden, then God put Adam in the Garden, then God presented the animals for Adam to name, then He created Eve.
No contradiction! You are getting hung up on how long it took to name the animals, but it's not a problem. This is very typical of what happenes when someone is puzzled by something, and they refuse to let go of something that isn't a problem. Magicians use this trick to distract people from the truth.
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