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He's celibate until marriage, and dates won't tolerate it
Chicago Sun-Times ^ | June 15, 2003 | Mary Mitchell

Posted on 06/15/2003 10:39:14 AM PDT by Mister Magoo

He's celibate until marriage, and dates won't tolerate it

June 15, 2003

BY MARY MITCHELL SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Ten years ago, Darren Washington, 33, made a dramatic lifestyle change. He decided to abstain from sex until he got married. It is a choice that makes sense in a world where sex can literally kill you. But the fear of sexually transmitted diseases was not the only thing that motivated Washington to try celibacy. Given the pain sexual relationships can cause, he wanted to be part of the solution--not part of the problem.

On Saturday, June 21, he will be one of the panelists for "What Men Don't Like To Talk About" at Being Single Magazine's 5th Annual Bachelor Breakfast.

Washington, director of external affairs for SBC Indiana, says his celibacy has frustrated some women.

"A lot of women wanted to be sexually active," he said. "And you have so many people fronting. What I found out is that women wanted a man who was going to be faithful to her because a lot of men are juggling different women, having sex with different women, and so women thought it would be OK if I was only having sex with them."

Some women backed away after realizing Washington took abstinence seriously.

"I told one woman I just wanted to be friends and she said she already had enough friends," he said.

Then, there's the hurry-up-and-get-on-with-it sister.

"I dated a very intelligent woman, an attorney, who was OK with celibacy," Washington said. "But after six months, she wanted me to make a commitment. She felt if she knew we were going to marry then she could abstain. I couldn't make that promise."

Washington, a state-certified HIV/AIDS counselor, regularly speaks out about abstinence. He says he does so because it is the best alternative, particularly for African-American couples.

"I think a lot of people--men and women--don't understand the emotional and psychological effects that premarital sex cause besides teenage pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.

"When you give your body, you open an area to them that is really sacred. You exchange spirits with that person and that is how you end up with heartaches, pain and jealousy. There are women out here who are cheating just like men. You can't blame one [gender] more than the other. If men stood up and took the initiative and treated women with more respect and respected their bodies, women would want their bodies respected."

Sex shouldn't be part of a dating relationship, Washington said.

"You really truly have to be patient and wait for the right man to come into your life," he said. "There are a lot of men out here who have their pick of the litter. They date a lot of women and they know they are a good catch. They are financially together and a lot of these men are having sex with a lot of different women."

In the abstinence world, a date is a date.

"There are certain things that are off limits if you are not willing to be married," he said. "I can go out with different people to have fun, but I don't expect sex and I don't expect them to take their clothes off."

But for a lot of men, sex is seen as their reward for showing his date a good time.

""I don't expect a woman to have sex with me because I took her out to dinner and spent $100," Washington counters. "That should be normal if I am trying to win her hand and to prove to her I'm the man of her dreams.

On the other side, women who do not have romantic feelings for a man may get involved with him sexually because he is financially solid and drives a nice car, Washington pointed out.

"We have to stop using each other," he said. "One way to do that is to abstain."

Of course, the real question is whether Washington is really one of those brothers on the down-low. He chuckled when I asked, but admitted it wasn't the first time he's been asked about his sexuality.

"People live an alternative lifestyle for sexual liberation, not sexual resignation," he said. "Right now, a lot of people are looking for a cure to AIDS. My issue is, yes, we need drugs that will stop the spread of AIDS, but what about the people who don't have it. They need to abstain. If you can't put a ring on a woman's finger or you don't want to marry the brother, you shouldn't be out there."

As noted in a recent Sun-Times special report on marriage, African Americans marry at a significantly lower rate than other racial groups in the United States. By age 30, 81 percent of white women and 77 percent of Asians and Hispanics will marry, but only 52 percent of black women will do so, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

After talking to Washington, I recalled something my father used to say when his daughters started dating: "Why buy the cow when the milk is free?" Of course, we didn't listen. As things have turned out, fathers knew best after all.

For additional information about next Saturday's panel discussion, please call (312) 567-9900.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abstinence; aids; celibate; chastity; dating; libertines; loosemorals; morality; singles; std
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To: hellinahandcart
your progession makes a lot of sense...

and so did the "politicization of every private matter" post by willie tell above.
201 posted on 06/15/2003 2:21:34 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (What price treason?)
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To: Gabrielle Reilly
Congrats! Is the wedding going to be Hindu or Catholic? How is your sweetheart grandaughter?

Hey there!

The wedding is at City Hall in Los Angeles. They've been engaged for 2 years, known each other (as friends) for 4 years. Since they moved out here from Connecticut, they've been hit financially hard, so when he got hit with the mother of all state tax bills they decided to forgo the big wedding in Hawaii and just make it legal. I told them they can renew their vows, or have the marriage blessed later on. We're driving out first thing tomorrow to pick up the grandbaby and her mother tomorrow. Baby is doing great :)

202 posted on 06/15/2003 2:22:56 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (America...love it or leave it. Canada is due north-Mexico is directly south...start walking.)
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To: fnord
rolmao... very very good...
now watch it get pulled....
203 posted on 06/15/2003 2:24:52 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (What price treason?)
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To: rb22982
"What's wrong with intelligent women? I can't stand talking to women who seem to possess no intelligence or common sense. You prefer talking to a cardbox box with a pretty picture posted on for a face?"

He's afraid they'll use too many words he can't understand.
204 posted on 06/15/2003 2:25:03 PM PDT by SendShaqtoIraq
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
Is sex a large part of marriage, or a meaningful part?

All the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the subject seems to indicate that some feel that way. For myself, fidelity wouldn't even rank in the top five requirements in my marriage.

205 posted on 06/15/2003 2:25:15 PM PDT by laredo44
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To: Mister Magoo
It's a "normal" vs. "abnormal" issue.

No it isn't. At what point do we stop medicalizing every personal decision or personality trait that not everyone agrees with? Don't like noisy crowds? Well you have a social personality disorder! Decide to go for quality rather than quantity in sex? Well you're a freak and have issues!

206 posted on 06/15/2003 2:26:28 PM PDT by garbanzo (Free people will set the course of history)
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To: Robert_Paulson2
I'm not looking at it politically. I'm looking at the emotional aspects of stringing someone along, when the motive for stringing the person along isn't the usual one(sex or money), and wondering why a grown man in his thirties would participate in such (may I say) girlish behavior. Especially since one of his reasons for choosing cleibacy is to avoid heartaches and pain...

Oh, maybe he meant just HIM. Maybe that's it.

207 posted on 06/15/2003 2:28:22 PM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: nickcarraway
ping
208 posted on 06/15/2003 2:29:12 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: hellinahandcart
cleibacy. What the hell is cleibacy?
209 posted on 06/15/2003 2:29:43 PM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: 7 x 77
I have an aunt who's married to an alcoholic who spends most of his time at home upstairs drinking beer.

Well actually I really don't want to lay out just how bad things can get. My ex isn't Catholic, but I was married in Church. I had a mature attitude to the point of stupidity. My mother had an extremely rigid point of view, and valued spiritual sacrifice. My father was looking up divorce attorneys. At least your uncle spends his time pounding the brewskis in his own house. I hope he isn't abusive towards your Aunt and the kids.

210 posted on 06/15/2003 2:30:33 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (America...love it or leave it. Canada is due north-Mexico is directly south...start walking.)
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To: hellinahandcart
(come on, it's kind of a logical progression.)

It's a silly progression. Everyone has bad dating experiences and as bad dating experience go this is pretty mild.

There is nothing wrong with her saying "you're a nice guy but this doesn't seem to be going anywhere so I'm going to start shopping for someone else." It shouldn't be a big deal.

211 posted on 06/15/2003 2:31:22 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: CIBvet
I'm really glad to see this thread.

From what I can tell, no one I know my age or younger was celibate till marriage. (I'm in my forties.)

I've become more serious about my Christian faith in the last couple of years. Right now, it's plain to see that my faith teaches celibacy until marriage. And it's plain to see that 'the sexual revolution' has brought more of the following to our society:

- abortion
- homosexuality
- almost unstoppable pornographic via Internet (you can't hardly open you email without seeing something that would have caused you drop dead with embarrassment if your Mom saw you looking at it 20 years ago)
- Bill Clinton and Monica
- semi- or fully pornographic TV
- pedophilia
- STDs
- AIDS
- etc, etc.

We surround ourselves with sex in entertainment to thrill us, with Ophras and Donahues to encourage us, and with pills and abortion to take of 'accidents'.

A great case for abstinence.

Trouble is.... I can't say I've talked to many people that practiced it. If I was single again, could I? Would I? I know if did, I'd have to stop watching a lot of movies and TV, and stay among a lot of Christians who take the Word seriously.

Thx,
-- Joe

P.S. I'd love to hear from more people that practiced abstinence until marriage.
212 posted on 06/15/2003 2:31:50 PM PDT by Joe Republc
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To: laredo44
"..All the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the subject seems to indicate that some feel that way. For myself, fidelity wouldn't even rank in the top five requirements in my marriage."

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
213 posted on 06/15/2003 2:33:04 PM PDT by Joe Republc
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To: Mister Magoo
I was still celibate at 33, and I don' think that there was anything particularly wrong with me.

My biggest problem was that I listed to too much bad advice. Through my late teens and early twenties, I was deeply committed to a Christian life and involved in evangelical and pentecostal churches. While they would never admit it, those churches advocate a passive approach to relationships. In part, those churches are trying to cool young people's hormones so that they don't have sex before marriage. Given what the Bible clearly says about premarital sex, I don't blame them for this desire even though I disagree with the teaching that it produced. In part, those churches advocate a passive approach to relationships as part of advocating an active spiritual relationship with God. While I'm no longer pursuing that kind of relationship in the way that they taught, I don't blame them for the desire to advocate a relationship with God. Unfortunately for me, the "God will provide" strategy was never going to work in a million years and certainly didn't in 33 years. If anything was "wrong with me," it was that I tried to live the teaching more literally than many others.

Another factor is that I'm just not a good salesman, and dating is at least in part a case of salesmanship. Personally, I think our society has gone entirely too far towards what is "marketable" and away from what is true. I once knew a preacher whose church was too small to pay him and who supported himself as a salesman. He said my problem is the mindset of an engineer versus that of a salesman. If a salesman is rejected ten times, the salesman will go into the eleventh meeting believing that he'll make the sale. He'll say to himself, "I've got a great product. If the past ten calls have failed to produce a sale, the next one is bound to buy." An engineer takes the opposite view. An engineer looks at ten rejections and says, "I've run this experiment ten times. I've produced repeatable, statistically significant results. I know what the answer is. Why am I even here?" Unfortunately, I am an engineer with a strong engineering mindset.

A third factor is that for those of us who don't care for the bar scene, it's hard to meet people. I'm certainly no social butterfly, but I'm not a hermit either. However, I can't remember the last time my normal life brought me in contact with someone who would even be worth dating. Once one leaves college, the opportunities to meet people just aren't there. I met some women in church, but my perspective was always just a little too off-kilter to attract them. Most would say that my ideas were reasonable and thoughtful, but they'd rather date guys who just blindly parroted the "party line."

WFTR
Bill

214 posted on 06/15/2003 2:33:07 PM PDT by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: laredo44
All the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the subject seems to indicate that some feel that way. For myself, fidelity wouldn't even rank in the top five requirements in my marriage.

In a relationship where 2 people are intimate, there should be fidelity. I'm a one guy gal. If I found out my bf was cheating, there wouldn't be a whole lot of drama, just a quiet goodbye.

215 posted on 06/15/2003 2:34:34 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (America...love it or leave it. Canada is due north-Mexico is directly south...start walking.)
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To: garbanzo
>>>>No it isn't. At what point do we stop medicalizing every personal decision or personality trait that not everyone agrees with? Don't like noisy crowds? Well you have a social personality disorder! Decide to go for quality rather than quantity in sex? Well you're a freak and have issues!>>>>>

That is very predominate in this culture as with the Japanese culture. It is astounding all the boxes one is put in. If you do this, then you must also do this, this and this. I do not seen other cultures stereo type as much as America does. Perhaps due to being more of a frontier country one had to determine if you are friend or enemy. It really inhibits the human potential. LOL, also I guess people make money from fixing "disorders." :)


216 posted on 06/15/2003 2:35:05 PM PDT by Gabrielle Reilly
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To: Billy_bob_bob
Sounds like they didn't read Jesus' advice on fasting, alms-giving, and prayer...

I was celibate until I married at 30. No regrets, and no problems--and I wouldn't call myself "tense." Never mentioned it unless someone asked me about it, and then I just acknowledged it as what I was doing.
217 posted on 06/15/2003 2:35:20 PM PDT by Poohbah (I must be all here, because I'm not all there!)
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To: WFTR
Pardon me if this has already been posted here, but here's great comment from Chuck Colson. It argues something that has always simmered underneath the abortion and homosexuality debate. If you're straight and have sex outside of marriage, what's gives you the right to tell gays they're wrong? As for abortion, the best answer to prevent many (not all) abortions is to keep sex in marriage.

Changing the Rules

BreakPoint with Charles Colson
June 13, 2003

The Sexual Revolution and Sexual Attitudes

The ruling earlier this week by a Canadian appeals court that legalized same-sex marriages in Canada is only the beginning. In one sense, it’s no surprise: Public acceptance of homosexual behavior has been growing. A majority of Canadians favor the court’s decision. Well, can’t happen here, you say. But indeed it can, if public pressure demands it. And support for homosexual rights is growing in the United States just like Canada.

Between 1973 and 1993, the percentage of Americans saying that homosexual relations were "always wrong" ranged between 66 and 70 percent.

But by 2000, only 54 percent said that these relations were "always wrong." And a 2001 Gallup poll showed the scales have tipped the other way. A majority today —54 percent—characterized homosexuality as an acceptable "alternative lifestyle." And just this year Gallup discovered that 62 percent of Americans believe homosexual relations should be legalized.

While there are several reasons for our changing attitudes, the most important is the legacy of the sexual revolution of the sixties and seventies. That phrase brings to mind terms like promiscuity and sexual experimentation. But these are only symptoms. The sexual revolution’s most profound impact wasn’t on our practices but on our attitudes.

Prior to the revolution, sex was not regarded as an end in itself. Rather, it was most often understood as serving two vital goals: procreation and what Christians call the "unitive" purpose, strengthening the bonds of marital love. It was against these ends that the morality or immorality of any practice was measured.

The sexual revolution, however, denied that sex was ordered to some higher and nobler end. Sex became a merely physical and biological act, an expression of our animal—not divine—nature. The old morality was dismissed as "unnatural," and sex became recreation.

In this worldview, the pleasure derived from a consensual sexual act is all the "justification" needed. And by now, even people whose own conduct conforms to the traditional morality have internalized this attitude. Thus, as the polls show us, they are unwilling to deny anyone’s right to recreation. And if sex is merely that, why would you not grant it to gays? There’s no basis to consider homosexual sex or, for that matter, sex outside marriage as wrong.

And because the terms of the debate have changed, gay activists are now winning the political battle, as we can see so clearly in the Canadian decision. Their right to recreation will quite logically be a protected "civil right." The only way to stop this—to defend marriage—is to reject the view of sex that we inherited from the sexual revolution.

It’s our job to teach people that sex is not an end in itself—it is more than recreation. It is an act infused with great moral significance.

Now, I admit it is going to be tough to teach this to people who have come to think of sex on any terms as their civil right—an attitude affirmed in court decisions in the United States as well as Canada—but teach it we must, for the alternative is social chaos.
218 posted on 06/15/2003 2:38:56 PM PDT by Joe Republc
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To: TheSpottedOwl
In a relationship where 2 people are intimate, there should be fidelity. I'm a one guy gal. If I found out my bf was cheating, there wouldn't be a whole lot of drama, just a quiet goodbye.

I'm not saying fidelity is neither important nor desirable. Only that if I were to rank the most important requirements of a relationsip, it wouldn't crack my top five.

219 posted on 06/15/2003 2:39:06 PM PDT by laredo44
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To: hellinahandcart
So he finds a woman who's willing to wait for marriage, but HE isn't willing to commit after dating and abstaining for six months.

I usually advise my friend to date for a year before getting engaged.

220 posted on 06/15/2003 2:39:21 PM PDT by Poohbah (I must be all here, because I'm not all there!)
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