Posted on 06/13/2003 8:17:51 AM PDT by kattracks
(Editor's Note: Contains information some readers may find objectionable.)
(CNSNews.com) - There's something for everyone on the Internet - even for pedophiles who seek support and acceptance for their fixation on children.
Some of the websites that "celebrate" adults' love for minor children are very careful to monitor their content so they don't break any laws. Pornographic images, erotic literature and other sexually explicit content are nowhere to be found on these sites, but advocates for children find them very troubling nevertheless.
At the website Girl Love Garden, pedophiles claim to be on a quest for social acceptance of their sexual preferences. The website celebrates "the emancipation of girls of all ages and 'girl love,' in general."
The website notes that "true emancipation" lies "in a child's sublime assent to becoming self actualized with the keen-eyed help of a loving mentor (gardener) who is willing to carefully fertilize and tend to the growth of the emotions, spirit and intellectual flora of the garden of a child's soul."
The committee's mission statement offers the view that adults who are "naturally, sensuously attracted to little girls and blossoming young women…will achieve full emancipation only by clothing their souls with a childlike personality and agreeing to 'play safe' with each other…"
Here visitors find "an oasis of shade" among the "refreshing waters of reason" where they are invited to "drink deeply of the exquisite delights to be found herein by Girl Lovers everywhere."
But "boy lovers" need not feel left out. At the Free Spirits website, visitors learn that "boylovers have not chosen of their free will to become so."
"It is an attraction most discover within themselves at a very early age," the site explains. "Through no action of their own, they find themselves considered horrible and vile. Most people who are attracted to minors try to live good lives but find no encouragement from a society and a press that labels all people with that attraction, whatever they do or don't do, as evil monsters," the web site says.
Developers of "BoyChat," the chat room at Free Spirits, admit it is not a place where "well-meaning social workers firmly guide people the way they think they ought to go."
BoyChat says it is run "by boylovers for boylovers." It encourages people posting on the website "to work freely through their own issues and questions."
Anonymity
The operators of both the Free Spirits and Girl-Love Garden websites are free to express their views because of the anonymity of the Internet. There are many other online sites catering to "MAAs" (minor-attracted adults, which some pedophiles prefer to call themselves).
Such websites claim to advocate for the civil rights and acceptance of "the most underserved and misunderstood sexual minority remaining in today's human society," according to the Free Spirits mission statement.
Along with chat rooms, these sites include members' galleries, where visitors find personal, historical and literary insights on loving children; and message boards where visitors may discuss issues involving the emotional, romantic and sexual relationships between children and adults.
'Legal'
According to Barry Maddox, spokesperson for the FBI's Baltimore, Md., office, the sites are "totally legal." Maddox told CNSNews.com the sites come close to breaking the law but do not break it."They've done their homework," Maddox said.
Pornographic images, literature or any other sexually explicit content are nowhere to be found on these sites.
"Girl Moments," or stories describing an encounter with a female adolescent that are "tasteful," "well-written," and focus on "friendships or other light-hearted encounters" are welcome at Girl-Love Garden, according to its frequently asked questions (FAQ) section. But it warns visitors not to "include details that evoke a prurient interest in sexual relations.
"Written materials that appear erotic or that advocate or counsel engaging in sexual activity with a minor constitutes a very serious offence" under the criminal codes of Canada, the U.S. and the United Kingdom, the FAQ warns, adding that "your material must be in full compliance with these laws so that when viewed with a prejudicial eye, they could not be seen as openly advocating, counseling, inducing, nor encouraging sexual intimacy with minors."
"We're only interested in those who act upon these impulses," Maddox said. While legal, he added, the sites "do make me sick to my stomach."
Ruben Rodriguez, director of the Exploited Children Unit at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, told CNSNews.com that while he likes the Internet, sites such as Free Spirits and Girl-Love Garden "have turned sections of it into a sewer."
"Many of these pedophiles act out on their impulses," Rodriguez said. "These kinds of sites are not something I would welcome."
Rodriguez said all the disclaimers and attempts at de-stigmatizing the "deviant sexual behavior" of pedophiles online are "just excuses" for them to "sit in front of a monitor and masturbate." He expressed "disgust" at the notion of society accepting pedophiles as another minority group.
"I see us sometimes going down a different path," Rodriguez said. "I don't see it getting better, I see it getting worse...going in a direction sometimes that just drives me crazy."
Some MAAs claiming to be Christians say they have found comfort at a website called Philia, which provides news and resources to religious support groups for adults who are attracted to minors. Philia, along with the Christian Boylove Forum (CBLF), are for those who "find themselves in the position of having no one to turn to who shares their faith as well as their sexual feelings.
"This (online message) board attempts to fill that gap by providing a friendly, safe place where we can be honest about our feelings and struggles with sexuality and faith, without fear of destructive criticism or harassment," the CBLF site states. "This is a place for mutual encouragement, support and advice as we seek to deal with our sexuality and society's reaction to it in responsible and healthy ways, to live out our lives with integrity and to express our faith in a way that honors God and demonstrates the love of Jesus Christ to all people."
Both sites are run by "Bach" - the screen name used to protect his identity - a boy lover who told CNSNews.com via e-mail that he has never acted upon his feelings and that he found support through a Christian service agency with which he volunteered.
"I am in a committed relationship with another man and have found that I am able to gain some satisfaction with this compromise," Bach wrote. "We discussed the fact that many message boards didn't allow for a Christian boylover to explore his faith in the context of his sexuality. We were often confronted with boylovers who had a strong hatred for the church, and we were constantly defending ourselves. This was the impetus to form the Christian Boylove Forum."
From CBLF sprung "Christian Consultations," "an annual gathering to bring together Christians (and some non-Christians) who are willing to enter into dialogue about adult attraction to minors," according to the Philia website.
"We have had involvement at the Christian Consultation from various pastors, Christian service workers, members of...Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered Persons," Bach stated in the e-mail to CNSNews.com. "The goal of these encounters was to provide a non-threatening place for dialogue ...to help break isolation and fear.
"I would hope that Christians could come to accept that minor-attracted adults are not monsters, not sex maniacs, not uncontrolled freaks, but folks who have to live their lives with a desire that is demonized by society and the media to an extent that they are fearful to speak of it to anyone," Bach explained.
Julie Posey, a self-described "cyber-crime fighter" runs the website Pedowatch.org. Posey's website claims that "since 1996, she has passed on hundreds of tips to law enforcement involving child sexual predators who use the Internet as a tool to gain access to children who are later sexually assaulted and in rare instances murdered."
Posey is also the author of They Call Me Kendra, which Pedowatch.org describes as an autobiography of "her life experiences as a sexually abused child and tells how she later became one of the nation's leading experts on child sexual predators."
Kendra was the onscreen name Posey used to trap sexual predators online. She told CNSNews.com that Christian Consultation sounded a lot like prison ministers who work with convicted pedophiles.
"They go into prisons and try to help the families," Posey said. "They say, 'Oh, what your loved one did isn't so wrong...he has a love for boys,' and they try to get them (the family) to accept it. But they're trying to get all of society to just accept it, and it's unacceptable to me."
Posey said sites like Free Spirits and Girl-Love Garden are "just working to make their stories sound good.
"I read the North American Man Boy Lovers Association's manifesto one time, and they were like 'sex is actually good for kids,'...well, I can tell you it's not," Posey said. "If society doesn't get a grip right now - and even right now it's going to be difficult, they are definitely going to have the same rights that we have."
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Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.
Same-sex Attraction Disorder IS the mental illness. You simply refuse to acknowledge this because you are afflicted with it.
"These attractions must be cured for the health of the sufferer and of society."
What if the "sufferer" isn't suffering? Why should it be society's business?
Go back and read scripter's (or was it edreform's) links on the medical consequences of what 'homosexuals' do. It's an unhealthy lifestyle to the practitioner, resulting in increased medical and social costs to the rest of us. (AIDS would not exist in this country if not for homosexual behavior).
Likewise, since our future depends on our children we cannot let the children become infected with this mental disease.
Now if the 'sufferer' volunteers to be quarentined away from the rest of society then I have no problem with how they choose to kill themselves. However, if they expect to live, work and play around normal people than they had better keep their perversion to themselves. The moment they demonstrate homosexual behavior in public they are breaking the society's mores and should be shunned. Consider it social leprosy.
Any exposure of children to homosexual behavior is child abuse
On whether people who think homosexual thoughts are homosexual
Maybe you should ask around, find out how many of your straight male friends fantasize about sex with men. Get back to me.
Heterosexuals tend to not talk about their fantasies because, for the healthy ones, sex is not the central part of their lives. That's why they don't define themselves according to the kind of sex they like. Similarly, healthy people don't pry into such issues. I wouldn't care if you were a lesbian if you weren't so interested in talking about it.
On whether fisting is sex
Me: "Fisting isn't sex. It can never in any conceivable understanding lead to reproduction."
You: So you feel that there are reasons other than sexual gratification that people engage in fisting?
I don't care why they do it. If they feel sexual gratification from fisting it is an example of their mental illness. Some people feel gratified having intercourse with animals. Some people feel gratified having their skin carved up. Some people feel gratified penetrating a corpse. Just because they feel gratified doesn't make the activity sex. It's a sign of a deranged mind.
Me: "I would have a problem with a conference about sex containing information about peeing on your partner."
You: You have a problem with private conferences where they would discuss something like that? Why? You don't have to attend.
OK, context. The conference was about education, geared toward education. It was funded by GLSEN, which receives a lot of tax dollars, and was intended to impact public school cirricula. The only way it can be considered "private" is because that is the only defense against telling the world what went on. What went on was sick, and needed to be stopped.
If the children who attended had parents who all knew that fisting (or golden showers) was going to be discussed and their parents still allowed them to go, I would have to defer to the parents, but I would have a problem with those parents.
People don't need to be taught how to be sickos. They can usually figure it out for themselves.
Me: "And obviously a lot of people agree with me, because the best defense GLSEN can mount was, "Hey! Nobody was supposed to know what we were talking about."
You: Yeah.. a lot of people agree with you who didn't attend the conference, don't agree with the premise of it, and WOULDN'T attend such a conference.. except for the guys there who only attended to make a stink about it.
And if there were no problem with what went on in the conference, then there would be no reason to sue the people who published the information. Fact is, most people recognized it was sick and GLSEN had no defense, which is why they went on the offensive.
Good people need not fear the truth.
On your own life
I'm taking full responsibility for my behavior. If I could change, I wouldn't. I don't want to change, I enjoy my life the way it is. I feel no guilt, and don't believe I should. Why would I desire change?
I'm glad you are happy, but you should still explore the other side and meet with some ex-gays. They were not all miserable, but they all realized the relative emptiness of their choice. I am an adult child of an alcoholic. I had never heard that term until I was over 30 years old. One day someone overheard me talking about my alcoholic mother and asked me some questions. I was a happy man, husband and father, coping well with life. After this friend spoke to me, I realized that there may be more. I looked into it and realized that I had adopted some coping mechanisms that made sense in my alcoholic home, but did not make sense in my life outside that home.
Realize I was not unhappy. I simply became happier. I had no motivation to change other than the desire to be all that I could be.
If you have the desire to be all you can be, have the courage to talk to Exodus International or other ex-gays. Contact Clay McLean (you can find him here). The worst that will happen is you will be vindicated.
On what homosexuality is
What sort of destruction do you think homosexuality leads to?
Homoerotic attraction is a denial of what you are. It is a middle step, not a first step. You are a sexual being which is as opposed to an asexual being. That means you have sex with someone of the opposite sex to reproduce. If you were an animal, homoerotic activity would be against your nature because it denies you the opportunity to reproduce. If you are a materialist, that is all the explanation you need.
If you believe in G-d, as I do, you know you are not an animal, you are a person, created uniquely by G-d with some unique traits. One of these is the need to be bonded with a man. This is described in Genesis 3. You can have strong relationships with women, but you can never be made "one flesh" with a woman. That is reserved for a sexual relationship with a man. You are less than you can be until you have such a bond, for G-d created this bond after declaring, "It is not good for man to be alone."
You say you love your "partner." That's good (although it is possible you don't mean the same thing by love that I mean). Would you love your partner less if she became paralized from the neck down and you could never have sex with her again? Would you love her less if you both turned straight and agreed never to have sex again?
If you are healthy, you can love her as fully (as straight men love other men and straight women love other women) without having sex with her. You can free yourself to create this bond with a man without giving up anything with your partner.
Destruction? If you define love as sex, you have dehumanized yourself. If you define yourself according to the kind of sex you have (straights don't, they only claim to be straight if someone asks them if they are gay) you have dehumanized yourself. And if society allows those definitions to stand, it is dehumanized as well.
I don't blame gays for the ills of society - I blame society for the ills of gays. I want society to stop its complicity.
Shalom.
Of course - and that context is a moral nation. Otherwise you have all the legal restrictions on "the pursuit of happiness" that we now have, because you can't pursue happiness at the expense of others.
One didn't have to say that when Jefferson penned the DoI. One has to say that now because we've lost our moral foundation.
Both homosexuals and pedophiles are sick, regardless of who they like to share their sickness with.
I might agree with you that they have the right to be sick and leave it at that, if there weren't such an intense lobby to have their behavior declared normal. And, if the new pedophile lobby weren't learning from their example.
Shalom.
I'm sure you will note that the bloodlines of ancient Persia, Babylon, and Rome still exist. But Babylonia, Persia, and Rome don't exist and never will because their culture is gone.
Israel is there not because the Jewish bloodline endured, but because the Jewish culture endured. The Jewish culture endured because, as Tevye said, of their traditions, which were given to them by G-d.
I would like to emulate Rome, but up until the point that it became a savage tribute to the worst in men. Surprisingly, that happened about the same time it began to accept homosexuality.
I can't blame homosexuality for Rome's turning savage. I think both have the same root cause.
Shalom.
Within the context that I don't think a discussion of oral sex belongs in a sex education classroom, he was right.
But it did violate his Marriage and was adultery. In that context it was sex and he should have been impeached.
Not because he had oral sex in the oval office (well maybe so) but because of his perjury.
You remember his perjury, don't you? Or are you a Dim troll who is still trying to convince the public it was all about sex.
Shalom.
Right now, there is more evidence that the G-d of the Bible exists than that Jeff Gordon exists. You ignore the proof because you prefer to say out of the light, not because you lack the evidence. You mock the holy because you prefer the profane.
G-d is patient, but His patience does not endure forever. Look up the Genesis account where G-d explained to Abraham why Abraham's descendents would have to suffer in Egypt for 400 years. Then ask yourself what it means for "iniquity to be complete."
Shalom.
How and why do you know they did not?
Abortion is no comparison. When a woman aborts her child, she alone makes the decision to abort based on selfishness or fear.
G-d sent the angel of death to take the firstborn of Egypt. He based His decision on knowledge, a knowledge that He alone can have.
You should study these things to understand rather than to twist. They are far more profitable that way.
Shalom.
Truth bump. I got there a little later.
Shalom.
Excellently written and thought out. Good work.
(When I grow up I want to write just like you (although I'm possibly already older than you))
In other words, G-d would allow His own chosen to suffer to give the people in Caanan every chance possible to repent of their sins and turn to Him. Only when they were so steeped in their evil that there was no longer any hope for them would He allow them to be driven from Caanan.
G-d allowed His chosen to suffer so that the sinful might have an opportunity to be redeemed?
Both the fact and the pointer to Christ give me goosebumps.
Shalom.
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