Teachers' poor pay just myth

Scottsdale Republic ^ | Craig J. Cantoni

[rwfromkansas]

Indeed. I dont know why he thinks you get an education degree and can teach whatever the heck you feel like teaching.

I am in the process of working a double major of secondary education and history/govt.

I need both in order to get certification. This will likely take 4.5 or 5 years.

[Dead Dog]

She's not complaining, I am. There is nothing I hate more that seeing my wife put through grief, and possibly sued, due to interaction with white trash.

[Lady Eileen]

The System is what people are upset with. The salaries are only a flash point (Do you like paying good money for a crappy product?).

I agree.

[Dead Dog]

Without, I would guess she is "Compensated" for twice that like everyone else. However, that is funny money, outside of her 403B. Her health insurance aint that hot, and she tends to work weekends.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Then ask her to work someplace where she will be appreicated. What does she teach? She could make a good living working with homeschool students if you are in an area with lots of kids. I would pay a couple of thousand dollars myself for a tutor to help me with certain subjects . That times a bunch of kids plus some other freelance work could get her more than teaching. I realize there aren't any benefits and special perks, but whe could define her own job. Think about it. I will help you do research for your area if that would help . Freep mail me if you want to.

[summer]

Market forces do operate in Phoenix Catholic schools, where teachers are paid 10 percent less than public school teachers, although their classes are considerably larger.

He should write an essay about this true fact, as Cathloic school teachers and private school teachers are usually paid much less than public school teachers. This is why public school teachers do not want "market forces" -- meaning: no union -- with respect to salaries, because salaries will plummett like the private school teacher salaries. Earning in the low $20's for teaching a classroom of kids is just too little. True, some local reporters may earn less, but if education does matter, then, teachers -- including private school teachers -- should earn more.

[rwfromkansas]

Yes the system is messed up.

But that idiot No Gore No More would not like to talk about the system, but instead bash teachers.

[summer]

Thanks for your ping here. See my post, above. (Also, I don't know how this guy came up with the notion that new accountants earn less than new teachers.)

[Amelia]

I am okay with local run/paid Public education, even State run/paid public education. Though a parent should be able to educate their child the way they see fit.

No argument there.

I am against the way children are educated (processed and packaged),

If you're talking about the socialism in education, I think you'd find that varies from district to district. I've certainly seen news articles about things I could never imagine happening in my area.

I am against the way it is paid for,

Which part? Local property taxes, state supplements, or federal government supplements?

I am against teachers unions,

So are many teachers, as you've seen on this thread.

I am against Government setting standards of education,

I don't know if the federal government needs to, but someone obviously does, or you get more students graduating who can't read or do basic math. That's why the standards came about in the first place.

I am against force attendance

Part of the problem in public education is the students who are forced to be there, and part of the problem is the students who can't be expelled and/or must be accepted due to court rulings or laws.

and I am against bureaucrats with more power than parents.

Again, varies from district to district. Since most districts have some sort of elected school board or other governing body, to an extent it's what the locality wants or is willing to put up with.

[rwfromkansas]

I have signed it before.

I would be okay with getting rid of the govt. school system completely as long as every kid could find a way to get into a private or homeschool and I am almost certain things could be arranged so that no child would be left behind even with all schools being for profit.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

I was the first to respond with a discussion of the system. I have been talking about the system all along. You are the idot who can not think outside the box. CAn't accept the fact that you are wrong and blind. I don't bash teachers. I bash the unions and those teachers who support the unions. I have said it all along ,you fool.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

I was the first to respond with a discussion of the system. I have been talking about the system all along. You are the idot who can not think outside the box. CAn't accept the fact that you are wrong and blind. I don't bash teachers. I bash the unions and those teachers who support the unions. I have said it all along ,you fool.

[summer]

OK, here is my above response -- without the typos! :)

He should write an essay about this true fact, as Catholic schoolteachers and private school teachers are usually paid much less than public school teachers. This is why public school teachers do not want "market forces" -- meaning: no union -- with respect to salaries, because salaries will plummet like the private school teacher salaries. Earning in the low $20's for teaching a classroom of kids is just too little. True, some local reporters may earn less, but if education does matter, then, teachers -- including private school teachers -- should earn more.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"Who do you know who doesn't make comments upon what they know from personal experience."


I know many people who do not solely base their entire opinions about whole groups of people based on their personal opinions.

"You two sure want people to believe what you say based upon your personal experiences in teaching. Do you teach your kids that just because something happened before their own eyes, they should never make any assumtions. If you do you don't teach math or science I presume."


I posted statistics and averages to back myself up, you did not.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"It is the system and those that understand the system and still protect it that I take issue with - teacher, parents, administrators, politicians. I do not care, if you protect it or defend it your wrong.

When an opponent declares, 'I will not come over to your side, 'I calmly say, 'Your child belongs to us already...What are you? You will pass on. Your decendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing but this new community.

- Adolf Hitler"


You know, it's an internet discussion list rule that whoever quotes Hitler first loses.

Again, you have me confused with someone else. I do not like the system, I do not defend the system, and I wish to dismantle the system. I serve in the system only because I love children and do not wish to leave them at the mercy of those who love the system. I am in the process of doing something to fix or remove the system. I have merely pointed out that in the article posted, a teacher's hourly wage is grossly misrepresented.

[Amelia]

You forgot about extra days off (or delays) for fog, snow, etc. In some districts this may account for an additional 15 days of vacation per (school) year.

I don't know about your state, but in my state, weather days have to be made up - either by removing already scheduled holidays, holding classes on Saturdays, or lengthening the school year.

[CyberCowboy777]

In some places teacher do not make "allot" of money, that I think has be demonstrated.

Still, I think that the salaries are only a flash point for valid frustration (understatement of the thread). A frustration not entirely or even mostly the teachers fault, yet they still "work" in the system and that makes them at minimum enablers.

Plus you have to contend with the fact that teacher make livings off of the current system and a new better system might be harder, poor work may result in less pay or termination. How can we know they are not biased?

If people felt and knew liberty in education, the market would allow for better pay - not unionized pay.

I pay the bill - make me happy.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"Ideas are for more powerful than guns. We don't allow our enemies to have guns, why should we allow them to have ideas?

- Stalin' >Joseph Stalin, In Politics"

When did I ever say my opponents should not have ideas? I said that everyone was welcome to their opinion, and welcome to hate teachers if that is their desire. However, that in and of itself does not mean that I need to respect their opinion or take them seriously. If I am going to take anyone's ideas seriously, they need to be backed up with fact, not just personal opinion by itself. I don't really see why this quote is at all relative to the discussion about teachers hourly wages.

[Amelia]

I am in the process of working a double major of secondary education and history/govt.

I hope you know how to COACH something too!

But that's good - we NEED more good strong conservatives teaching history and government!

[Amelia]

Earning in the low $20's for teaching a classroom of kids is just too little....if education does matter, then, teachers -- including private school teachers -- should earn more.

The author was talking about hourly salary, and I think he was only including "official" hours worked.

Of course, as I pointed out earlier, mortgages, utilities, food, car payments, etc. depend on annual salary, not hourly pay rate.

The only rational reason to teach is that you love doing it.