Teachers' poor pay just myth

Scottsdale Republic ^ | Craig J. Cantoni

[hsmomx3]

Contrary to union propaganda, teachers are not underpaid. I say this as someone with 28 years of experience in conducting salary surveys and designing pay plans.

According to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, local elementary school teachers earn about the same average pay on an hourly basis as local reporters ($23.74). They also earn more than microbiologists ($20.60), zoologists ($17.36) and accountants ($22.49). Secondary school teachers even earn more per hour than civil engineers.

[Lady Eileen]

However, public schools used to work.

I agree.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"Oh, that's right you are a public school teacher you don;t need to understand anything more than what you know and how you feel."

I believe I have supported my arguments quite well with facts and statistics. From you, I have seen an argument based on generalizing from a sample that does not represent the population, and a whole lot about what you feel based on personal experience. Maybe you would fit right in with those public school teachers you criticize.

[kjam22]

I have seen an argument based on generalizing from a sample that does not represent the population,

That's a pretty accurate evaluation. Or... you could just call it a bunch of spin.

[CyberCowboy777]

I think they may have changed the design of the educational system since then.

You have no clue of the origins of our current Public Education system then. This is not the system Jefferson envisioned. The model is well over "100" years old.

You expect some recognition because your Grandparents were teachers yet you disregard, without thought, the comments of a man who actually ran the public education system in this country.

The system is much the same, only worse. More bureaucrats, more greed, more wasted dollars and more socialism.

You have no understanding of the system outside what you have been told by those who make money by leaving the system the way it is.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Nope. Just interested in the revolution of education that is going on today. It is a topic I have spent much time researching and learning about.

I have two children and I think education is of utmost importance. You could say I am obsessed with their welfare and happiness. That includes the world in which they will live when I am gone.

I guess if you are so interesed in teaching then you are obsessed with children. hmmm.. that does not sound good does it? Nice try.

So you think I complain because I am responding to a thread on FR.. if teachers only complained in a manner as this ,we would all be happy. Instead some hold students hostage as they demand more and more. They shut schools down and they compalin to anyone who has ears ,about their plight.

I have not insulted any hardworking ,thoughful, respcetful person here. I have not insulted any teacher here either, unless they are in the NEA. Then I say they get what they deserve for being a part of a union that is railroading the education system of America, abusing the children in their care , and for the rape of the taxpayer.

Of course it is only my life's experience that I have gotten from my own education, from working in the schools, from working with the kids who have been abused in the schools, from volunteering, from homeschooling, from my neighbors and family that are teachers, from 5 years researching the nature and current enviornment of public education, from reasearching learning styles and those overlooked in public education. If you don't understand that I have knowledge of this topic, you have no business teaching children anything.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Oh, BTW if that was some attempt to try and humiliate me.. it is much harder to get adults that way than it is to get to children. It may work on the kids in your class, it doesn't work on me.

[CyberCowboy777]

The true education of our future is important, I not only recognize that, I champion it.

Yet some would suggest that people in my position only want to take away from the children or relapse to some less successful time. Nothing could be further from the truth and I would submit that they in their attitudes of indolence are the one stealing all our future and freedoms.

They are the ones stealing freedoms and future of our children, though inertia and selfishness. Some for agenda and others for a false sense of ataraxia.

Less than 50% of the public votes, fewer are intelligent enough to vote conservative, yet they defend the current antiquated and damaging public education system. Strange? Hardly.

I say throw out the troglodyte socialists and begin anew with true learning and education.

[af_vet_rr]

Lack of familial support to be precise. No teacher can compensate for that.

Too many parents see schools as their babysitters and expect the schools to raise them. They are not willing to actually raise their children. Schools should be expected to do one thing, and that is educate them, not actually raise them, etc.

My daughter loves children and had considered teaching, but after going through the student teaching and being a substitute teacher, she got turned off to it. At least in Texas (Austin to be precise) some districts are so focused on the students passing the standardized tests, that they have almost stopped teaching the regular subjects (the old 3 R's) and concentrate on teaching how to pass the tests.

Maybe we should we should start a thread about when we were younger and the schools focused on teaching us and didn't have to be obsessed with state tests.

[Amelia]

But because he [who?] agrees with you, you wait to say anything . It is called looping one topic or converstaionconversation into another. It is a technique. [These two sentences are sophomoric, and verge on nonsensical. There must be a better way of stating what you mean?] But I don't expect you to understand the finer points of debate. How educated and fairminded of you.[personal attack] Oh, that's right, you are a public school teacher, you don't need to understand anything more than what you know and how you feel. [ad hominem]

Obviously, you don't understand the finer points of debate either, or you would know that ad hominem attacks don't score any points.

[Lady Eileen]

You have no understanding of the system outside what you have been told by those who make money by leaving the system the way it is.

Posted by Lady Eileen to ladylib On News/Activism 04/28/2003 11:33 AM EDT #45 of 58

ladylib: It's unfortunate that people don't realize it, but when you have a child who goes to a public school (and you are paying in taxes) you are going to believe anything that the school tells you.

Lady Eileen: Excellent point. The designers of the system were brilliant. They set it up this way. The taxeaters get the money from the taxpayers first, then give a "free lunch" education in return. Parents fall into the trap, gobbling spoiled food they have already paid for. Because they have already paid, whenever they get a whiff of rot, they hold their nose and keep munching, because they think they don't have money left over for any alternative.

[CyberCowboy777]

So true

So sad

[CyberCowboy777]

I do not say Teachers are "good" or "bad". Teacher get paid to do a job the wrong way.

But anyone who says they appreciate teachers or says they are a good teacher and does nothing to abolish the current education system is either ignorant or a liar.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

YOu are absolutley hateful when talking to anyone who isn't a teacher. What is your point.

I refer to teachers who are in the union and the unions. YES I HATE THEM. You people finding fault with me are making arguments that I don't know what I am taking about. I AM TALKING ABOUT UNION TEACHERS.. If you areguing with me.. what are you arguing about if it is not unions and union teachers?

[ReagansShinyHair]

"So you think I complain because I am responding to a thread on FR.. if teachers only complained in a manner as this ,we would all be happy. Instead some hold students hostage as they demand more and more. They shut schools down and they compalin to anyone who has ears ,about their plight."


Which teachers, and where? How often does this happen? What percentage of teachers are involved in these activities? Again, you are generalizing from small samples that are not representative of the population you draw conclusions about.


"I have not insulted any hardworking ,thoughful, respcetful person here. I have not insulted any teacher here either, unless they are in the NEA. Then I say they get what they deserve for being a part of a union that is railroading the education system of America, abusing the children in their care , and for the rape of the taxpayer."


On the contrary, you have told someone to "STFU", called me unintelligent for being a teacher and spending extra money to do my job well, and generally come across as an arrogant and mean-spirited person who has a massive chip on her shoulder about teachers. I am basing this on what you have said, so for all I know, you might be different under different circumstances.


"Of course it is only my life's experience that I have gotten from my own education, from working in the schools, from working with the kids who have been abused in the schools, from volunteering, from homeschooling, from my neighbors and family that are teachers, from 5 years researching the nature and current enviornment of public education, from reasearching learning styles and those overlooked in public education. If you don't understand that I have knowledge of this topic, you have no business teaching children anything."


See...the thing is...your arguments carry no weight. It's just because you feel that way and that's your opinion. Fine, go ahead and hate teachers. I really don't care. I am past feeling mad when people hate teachers for some reason or other. They all have their own reasons. The difference here is that you are laboring under the delusion that your arguments are well thought-out and well-supported. They are not.

In an attempt to support your position on why teachers are so bad and not worth being paid, you make statements such as "There must be a reason why so many people hate teachers." (I must add here that the main argument is about the HOURLY WAGE of teachers, and this is a complete tangent that really does not belong here.)

Anyway, back to the argument that "teachers are bad because lots of people think that". Are you religeous at all? Not that it matters particularly to me if you are, but many people think that all religeous people are weak people who use religeon as a crutch and can't follow a logical argument or understand and interpret scientific facts. Is this a correct conclusion then, because many people think it is so?

Many people also believe in aliens. Some people believe we never landed on the moon and that the earth is flat.

How many research and statistics classes have you taken in your pursuit of higher education? You seem to be grossly lacking in research skills, since you are desperately clinging to the idea that personal experience has much of any bearing on making a generalization about a large class of people.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"If you areguing with me.. what are you arguing about if it is not unions and union teachers?"

This discussion was about the hourly wage of teachers.

[dljordan]

Amen! I'm out here in Longmont, Colorado where the school district BLEW 15 million bucks due to mismanagement and had the gall to call for a referendum to increase taxes to give the teachers a payraise. The two teachers who live next door to me were all for it. Both of them bought a NEW Jeep this year PLUS a used Jeep for their son. We live in a nice neighborhood where the houses run from $250,000 - $500,000 so they're doing ok. Hubby also bought a Harley to scoot around on. They pay NO medical premiums either. They are off three months of the year and have TOO MANY long holidays. I just can't believe these people were bitching about their pay raise like we owed it to them.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"Oh, BTW if that was some attempt to try and humiliate me.. it is much harder to get adults that way than it is to get to children. It may work on the kids in your class, it doesn't work on me."

Nice. Now you have attempted your own humiliation against her as a teacher. What if she had pointed out that you have personally attacked people in this thread as well as telling someone to "STFU". What if she had then told you that this type of social interaction may work on your child at home, but not in a forum of adults? Would that be a fair characterization of you?

[ReagansShinyHair]

"YES I HATE THEM"

So, you are a bigot. Would you think that kind of statement would be acceptable if someone said it about any of the following:

Black people (just the ones who belong to NAACP!)
White people (Just the poor ones!)
Mexicans (Just the ones with too many kids!)
Factory workers (Just the ones who want more money!)
Christians (Just the ones who belong to a church!)
Muslims (only the ones who cover their heads!)

I think it is pointless to try and have a discussion with you. You are so far gone into the depths of hatred, I doubt you will ever find your way back to the clear shores of logical thinking.