Teachers' poor pay just myth

Scottsdale Republic ^ | Craig J. Cantoni

[hsmomx3]

Contrary to union propaganda, teachers are not underpaid. I say this as someone with 28 years of experience in conducting salary surveys and designing pay plans.

According to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, local elementary school teachers earn about the same average pay on an hourly basis as local reporters ($23.74). They also earn more than microbiologists ($20.60), zoologists ($17.36) and accountants ($22.49). Secondary school teachers even earn more per hour than civil engineers.

[r9etb]

Since you are calling me a liar, I believe you have not done much research on this topic at all.

You made a global claim about teachers' lifestyles, apparently based only on what you see of your neighbors -- undoubtedly neglecting to tell us the full facts their income.

I see no need to take you seriously. And so I don't.

[kjam22]

Btw.... I don't think you're a liar. I just think you are talking about something that you really know nothing about.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

No ,I was told STFU. But that would take a little more digging on your part to see what I responding to. IF you are so smart why are you buying materials for things you can make or have made. Things you could have donated ,or do with out. Things you can get for free.

I have to buy all of my children's educatioanl materials, I don't whine about it, I get creative about it. There are thousands of free resources out there for teachers. But then you could not cry vicitm , right?

If it is not in the office budget , a business person buys it or goes without. You should as well. Everyone likes those cute, expensive, little TREND materials. Use something else.

I am doing plently for the schools, which I do not use ,and continue to pay for. I have worked there in the past ,and I have volunteered there for four years.

Besides, why is it now everyone else's job to straigten out the educational system, but then we taxpayers have had enough you people tell us to STFU ,and cry about what we don't understand.

The NEA has a stronghold. What I will do ,to better education for the future of America ,is do my part in explaining to people that the NEA and union teachers HAVE NO CLOTHES.

If you are so educated, why didn't you figure out what was going on in the field of education before you got yourself involved? Not too smart if you ask me. Teachers haven't been society's little darlings for generations now. There must be some reason why, don't you think? Could it be the low standards they have, could it be because we are sick of the complaing? Could it be almost everyone has a few stories of bad teachers, who have made negative impacts upon their lives? Oh, I am sure you will join the other pro NEA people here and tell me I am just lying. These things just don't happen. You even refer to the "few" bad teachers who need to be fired. I think the number is a bit higher than that.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

No, I have a harder job, I raise my own children and homeschool them, and take care of a family. You want to talk about hard work. Hardest job I have ever had, That is why many women go somplace else for the day, and let other people raise their own kids.

[Lady Eileen]

As Rev. Ray Moore notes in his book ...Let My Children Go: Why Parents Must Remove Their Children From Public Schools Now

Why is abandonment of state schools necessary? Can't we just "fix" the problem of public education with better ideas, more money, more teachers, new technology, etc, etc? More and more Christians are beginning to understand they the clear answer to this question is an emphatic "No.!" State schools, according to Rev. Moore, are built upon a socialist, humanist-oriented model. Socialism, from its very foundation, is not compatible with Christianity and a free market economy. Government education's socialist model is, however, a brilliant means by which to inculcate the hearts and minds of children toward the goals and purposes of the state.

Thus we begin to see a battle line drawn by those who wish to indoctrinate children toward the goals of state education, versus those who wish to educate and point children toward their Creator to fulfill His purposes in their lives. And with Christ, we must keep in mind; there is no neutral ground.

[laredo44]

Typing correctly is overrated as a device to determine IQ.

FWIW, once you are above a certain level, spelling ability and IQ correlate negatively.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"No ,I was told STFU. But that would take a little more digging on your part to see what I responding to"

I read where the other person said it. Then YOU said it back. Very childish to say it, even more childish to point the finger at him and say, "He said it first!".

[Lady Eileen]

Hardest job I have ever had, That is why many women go somplace else for the day, and let other people raise their own kids.

Excellent point.

[kjam22]

And I commend you for taking care of your family and raising your kids. Very much so. But it is clear that you don't really know enough about the school teaching profession to make the statements that you seem comfortable making about it.

[capitan_refugio]

If you weren't as ignorant and close-minded as you are, you would realize that you are stereotyping. Also, from what I continued to read, you have some very serious issues you apparently have never dealt with, because you are "projecting." If you did as much social work as you say, and worked with the mentally ill, you'll know what I mean.

When our kids were young, my wife stayed off her jobs for almost a decade. She's back working now, because we have college plans for them. It is a decision we made, a case of cost/benefit analysis. We raised our kids to know right from wrong, and to be very self-suffcient and independent. We even home-schooled for a while (surprise). Three of them are teenagers. Outstanding kids who excel in school, activities, and sports.

You are painting a whole category of people with a broad brush. I know several teachers who have, toward the end of their career, basically put it on cruise control. I also know many teachers who put in long, extra hours. These are people to strive to make there community a better place. A job or career is what you make of it.

My wife and I are both very good conservatives and Republicans. She dislikes the teacher's unions very much. On the other hand, she dislikes the inept bureaucrats who mismanage the Disticts, too. If "name-calling" makes a RINO, just take a look in the mirror. You are not going to like what you see.

If you ask people to name some of the influential people in their lives, I'm willing to bet most would name a teacher as one of them. A good teacher can be a source of inspiration. Despite your moronic ramblings to the contrary, people don't always choose their professions based simply on wages. Some consider location, job satisfaction, personal interests, opportunity for personal growth, and a number of other things. Rather than just bitch about "crying" teachers, why don't you research some of the issues - they are in the newpapers all the time - and provide some substance to your complaints and evidence for your claims? If you do that, you might then have cause to say that "you are right." Otherwise, you are just a loud-mouthed nut case.

[kjam22]

My wife picked up a new student the last 9 weeks of school. Young man who had been homeschooled all of his life. Mom and dad decided he needed to be with kids his age for socialization and all that jazz. Not that I agree with that... but the point is ... my wife is a reading teacher. It took her about 2 days to figure out that the kid could not read not one two syllable word. He read on a 1st grade level and his parents expected him to merge in and start 9th grade next year. The district isn't sure what to do with the kid. He has to be taught to read. He's to old to start 2nd grade next year. His parents don't want him in anything remedial because that defeats the purpose of his "mainstreaming" objective.

This is a reality... but that doesn't mean it is a reality for your kids. And it would be unfair and more than that... it would be inaccurate for me to run around talking about what lousy homeschool teachers parents make.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

But because he agrees with you, you wait to say anyhing . It is called looping one topic or converstaion into another. It is a technique. But I don't expect you to understand the finer points of debate. How educated and fairminded of you. Oh, that's right you are a public school teacher you don;t need to understand anything more than what you know and how you feel.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"IF you are so smart why are you buying materials for things you can make or have made."

Gee, perhaps because I feel responsible to EDUCATE PROPERLY. Maybe because I actually care about doing a good job. Most teachers at my school have cupboards full of materials they've bought.


"I have to buy all of my children's educatioanl materials, I don't whine about it"

You CHOOSE to buy them. You are whining about it right now, aren't you?

"If it is not in the office budget , a business person buys it or goes without. You should as well. Everyone likes those cute, expensive, little TREND materials. Use something else."

You are incredibly ignorant. I do not buy trend materials. I buy basics, and they are necessary. My school curriculum thinks that one page explaining division is adequate. It is not. My school's copier is often broken. I spend $40 a month at Kinko's so the kids can have homework. Should I just tell them to read the book and give me no proof? Do you think I have not tried that? Do you actually think that will work? It does not, and you are incredibly, incredibly ignorant if you think that it will.

"I am doing plently for the schools, which I do not use ,and continue to pay for. I have worked there in the past ,and I have volunteered there for four years."

I pay for schools, and I have no children and will probably never have children. I do not mind, since many of those children would otherwise recieve NO education at all. I do not want to breed an underclass. How often did you volunteer in those four years?

"Besides, why is it now everyone else's job to straigten out the educational system, but then we taxpayers have had enough you people tell us to STFU ,and cry about what we don't understand."

I have never in my adult life told anyone to "STFU". Perhaps you are thinking of yourself. It is your duty as an American to make America a better place. You are making it seem as though you care only for yourself.


The NEA has a stronghold. What I will do ,to better education for the future of America ,is do my part in explaining to people that the NEA and union teachers HAVE NO CLOTHES.

I do not like the NEA and do not agree with their positions on almost everything. Many teachers I know do not. But I suppose you know "most teachers" since you have a couple of neighbors who are teachers, so you MUST be more qualified to evaluate how "most teachers" feel about the NEA.

"If you are so educated, why didn't you figure out what was going on in the field of education before you got yourself involved? Not too smart if you ask me. Teachers haven't been society's little darlings for generations now. There must be some reason why, don't you think? Could it be the low standards they have, could it be because we are sick of the complaing? Could it be almost everyone has a few stories of bad teachers, who have made negative impacts upon their lives? Oh, I am sure you will join the other pro NEA people here and tell me I am just lying. These things just don't happen. You even refer to the "few" bad teachers who need to be fired. I think the number is a bit higher than that."

Firstly, I am not pro-NEA. Secondly, both of my parents are/were teachers, so I knew well what I was getting in to. I am happy with my choice, because I love kids and I love teaching. I don't care about my hourly wage, but I do care WHEN PEOPLE MISUSE STATISTICS TO TALK ABOUT AN "HOURLY WAGE" FOR TEACHERS OR FOR ANY OTHER REASON.

I have come to the conclusion over the years that the reason why many teachers are slammed is because of people like you and the author of the article, who spout vile and mean things out of their own ignorance. It is also because of the few bad teachers out there who are so visible in their badness. Someone sees them and makes a general assumption about "most teachers", even though they only know a few of them. That is an argumental fallacy known as "generalizing from a sample that is not representative of the population". You seem to use that one a lot, so you must know it well.

I notice you have dropped the argument about teacher's grad degrees so far. At least you are capable of rational thought and following logical argument. Let's not stop there, though.

[kjam22]

The lady you are arguing with is an idiot. Plain and simple. A person who argues passionately about something that they are clueless about.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"Why is abandonment of state schools necessary?"

Firstly, I would not put my children in public schools. I will homeschool if I am lucky enough to get children.

However, public schools used to work. There was a time when they DID work. I suggest you read "The Bell Curve" for more statistics on public schools and their effectiveness. I do not agree with some of the conclusions in that book, but they do provide convincing facts about public schools in the past versus now.

[ReagansShinyHair]

I know many people here and in life are just extremely ignorant and wish to remain that way. I feel it is my moral duty to counter errors of fact when I see them. It's not my problem if someone hates teachers, schools, or anything else. Why they do that is their own business. But errors of fact posted on a public forum should be countered with the facts whenever possible.

I guess it's hard for me to stop educating. I have educated far more abrasive and ignorant people than anyone on this forum so far. They had an excuse, though, since they were children. :)

[ReagansShinyHair]

"But because he agrees with you, you wait to say anyhing"

Because he agrees with me, I wait to say anything? Who are you even talking about? You are off your medication or something. I am not waiting to say anything, and I am not waiting for anyone to agree with me.

And, um, you did not address the issue. You sidestepped it and made a personal attack. How very "democratic" of you.

[Amelia]

And how much do they whine about the unfairness of the world?

Not nearly as much as you whine about teachers.

Are you sure you aren't taking out your resentments against your alcoholic teacher mother on the rest of the profession?

You really do seem obsessed with insulting teachers.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

My son is five and is currently reading about the theory of flight. This is a topic in which he is greatly interested. He loves books on Atoms, rocks, and insects. He loves classification. I am not worried about keeping my kids home. They have alot of friends, tons of time to play and they are very bright.They love to play with any kid they see.

All of the Docters and Bankers I know want my kids to play with their kids. If you did make some broad statement about homeschoolers, and you had as much experience with homeschooler as I have had with public school teachers I would be seriously interested in what is going on. Then again I keep an open mind when people are sharing info. You don't have to believe me. I know what I say is true from much personal experience.I said most because I know there are a few dedicated teachers out there who really are making a difference in the life of a child. I have met a few myself. One must be able to gerneralize and discriminate at some point, otherwise there is no real learning going on.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"I know what I say is true from much personal experience"

See, most people would say that's a big problem in terms of the credibility of your argument.