Smokers 'to sign pledge' with doctors

The Guardian ^ | Tuesday June 3, 2003 | Nicholas Watt, political correspondent

[friendly]

Smokers and overweight people will be asked to sign contracts with their doctors to agree a programme to quit smoking and lose weight under radical plans being drawn up by the government.

In an attempt to remind people of their own responsibilities the health secretary, Alan Millburn, is examining plans for patients and doctors to agree a formal programme of treatment.

Labour sources insisted last night that the plan, outlined in a Labour party policy document as part of preparations for the next general election manifesto, did not mean patients would be denied treatment if they refused to sign.

But the Labour document makes clear that patients, particularly overweight people and smokers, will be reminded that they must have a role in caring for themselves.

Under the new contracts, overweight people would be encouraged to exercise more and to eat a more balanced diet. The document says: "Agreements could be drawn up to help people to cut down or quit smoking, to lose weight, to take more exercise or to eat a more nutritious diet."

Under Clive Bates, formerly director of anti-smoking organisation Ash, Downing Street's strategy unit has been examining consumer responsibility across every aspect of public services.

The proposals are likely to be attacked by rebel Labour MPs who are already opposed to government plans to introduce elite foundation hospitals in the NHS.

But government sources made clear last night that it had no intention of forcing people to do anything and treatment would never be denied to people. A Department of Health source said: "This is about reminding people that resources are finite. If they misuse them they are being denied to someone else."

· The health secretary said that during a single week in March the target of treating patients within four hours of arrival in A&E was hit for 92.9% of patients. But a BMA survey found 55% of departments met the target in the week before the audit, 85% during that week and 63% a week later.

[friendly]

What I find most amazing (and educative) is the ferocious opposition by the hard left, for even the most minimal personal responsibility. These personal responsibilty contracts do not mean that there is any reduction in access to the cr*ppy British National Health Service.

This clearly shows the enormous harm to people that the leftists cause. The socialists place dogma and their personal power over human needs.

We see this dangerous, harmful rigidity throughout the democrat party.

[FairOpinion]

"What I find most amazing (and educative) is the ferocious opposition by the hard left, for even the most minimal personal responsibility. "
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Surely you jest. How much more invasive can the government be, than to tell people that they aren't allowed to smoke or be overweight? Then prescribe exactly how much and what they should eat, and how much exercise they MUST have.

Then they will tell them that they are not allowed to ride motorcycles, too hazardous. So when are they going to make homosexual sex illegal and make homosexuals wear chastity belts? (which would make a whole lot more sense than the government making rules for smokers and overweight people.
How much is AIDS costing the healthcare system? )

I guess concentration camps for the smokers and the overweight is just another step away. Preview of Hillary care.

[eno_]

Before it is too late:

Medical Savings Accounts up to $4000 per year, up to $40,000 per individual, or unlimited.

Indemnity insurance with high deductables.

Make medicine truly private again: encrypted patient records, trusted computing systems required to handle patient records.

[Prodigal Son]

Related thread: Fat people will have to diet if they want to see the doctor

[friendly]

Yes, medical savings accounts. Thanks for reminding me of this amazing, almost completely unknown option.

The democrats do every thing in their evil power to destroy the little MSA option that is currently available.

I pray Dubya is as smart as I have been claiming he is, and seizes upon the MSA issue.

The democrats will absolutely make socialized medicine the cornerstone of the 2004 and 2008 campaigns. In the meantime their shysters are aggressively destroying the currently emergency room and trauma systems with their legal profiteering.

[eno_]

Yup, MSAs are the Magic Bullet. It would be a fine encore to the tax cut if Dubya slayed the medical costs monster. Reforming 15% of GDP has GOT to be good for the economy.

KNOCK KNOCK! I KNOW THE WHITE HOUSE READS FR! LISTEN UP, THIS IS A WINNER!

[cinFLA]

Surely you jest. How much more invasive can the government be, than to tell people that they aren't allowed to smoke or be overweight? Then prescribe exactly how much and what they should eat, and how much exercise they MUST have.

They take your money and then pay for the medical bills.

[FairOpinion]

"They take your money and then pay for the medical bills."

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Exactly. Then they dictate what you can do in your personal life. Even the so-called communist countries didn't get that far socialized. But this would fit in well with Hillary/Gephardt care.

[friendly]

Yup, MSAs are the Magic Bullet. It would be a fine encore to the tax cut if Dubya slayed the medical costs monster. Reforming 15% of GDP has GOT to be good for the economy. KNOCK KNOCK! I KNOW THE WHITE HOUSE READS FR! LISTEN UP, THIS IS A WINNER!

100% accurate.

The democrats could easily resurge in what I believe to be their evil & cynical Macchiavellian plan.

First the democrat trial lawyer scum destroys health care, esp. ER and trauma centers. The USA ER system is collapsing as we speak, so the democrats are incredibly successful in this already.

Then the same democrats brazenly come forward as the self-appointed saviors.

[Indrid Cold]

I wonder if the doctors will be required to sign contracts as well, promising their patients that they'll be informed of new research findings or of old claims that have been found bogus. Y'know, like sodium intake has never been proven to have any effect on blood pressure, that sort of thing.

[friendly]

I support Tony Blair on this proposal. The "contracts" the British patients would sign are legally meaningless. They merely awaken the mind numbed robots to the prospect of personal responsiblity.

[FairOpinion]

"KNOCK KNOCK! I KNOW THE WHITE HOUSE READS FR! LISTEN UP, THIS IS A WINNER!"
---

My guess is that reforming Medicare and Social Security are high on Bush's agenda for his second term, after he wins the war on terror and gets the economy going this term.

I would also like him to get around to abolishing the IRS, and have nice, simple sales taxes instead.

[secret garden]

Who do you think he is? Forbes?

[fishbabe]

just take away their insurance coverage and watch how fast they shape into healty action....no smoking and tons of weight loss....why bother to do it now because everyone helps pay for your coverage...and watch how the liberals say you can't have overweight people sign these pledges but alllllll those evvvvvvil smokers can!!!!!!

[RJayneJ]

We would be facing the same thing if Hillarycare had been enacted. When Medicare was being debated in congress the Republicans warned that if it passed, it would eventually lead to the government telling you what you could smoke or eat. And they were accused of wanting old folks to die for lack of medical care.

There are folks on the right that have given the nod that the tobacco companies should be out of business because some Christian fundamentalist consider smoking a "sin" so it's okay. Sadly, the day is coming that parts of the food industry are the next target.

[friendly]

In this country the lawyers and politicians make big, big money from massive cigarette taxes. I no loger see any stop smoking ads since the tobacco settlement awarded endless billions to the shysters.

[secret garden]

Gasp! Not Krispy Kremes!

[potlatch]

did not mean patients would be denied treatment if they refused to sign.

NO?? But it's the first step towards it!!

[Prodigal Son]

Everybody else is a mind-numbed robot but I've got it all figured out. I've always got a kick out of this one. It means we're all sheep because everybody says it. You, me everybody. All just sheep that need yet another law to wake 'em up.

I'm holding three different packs of tobacco in my hand right now. These are the warnings that the Her Majesty's Gov't has printed on them in a BIG WHITE BOX that is totally impossible to miss:

• Smoking seriously harms you and others around you
• Stopping smoking reduces the risk of fatal heart and lung diseases
• Smokers die younger
• Smoking kills

I see this every time I open up my packet of Drum to roll a smoke. I don't need yet another piece of paper to let me know that smoking is dangerous. I roll my own because the taxes are so high on a pack of Marlboros I decided not to buy them anymore. The taxes are high to help pay for the health system that I would toss in the bin (the NHS) if anybody here had a choice.

If the contract is meaningless- What's the point? If it's non-binding and there's no point, you can't even be forced to sign it. So what's the point?

Let people live their own lives. The gov't has no business being in the health care industry in the first place. If people want to smoke or eat lard and not even purchase medical insurance- so what? People are always so eager to 'lead the sheep' in the right direction. I think that's an elitest attitude. People aren't sheep. They're humans. They're capable of making up their minds if the State and the Busybodies in this world would mind their own business.

I'm not going to quit smoking. I'll quit smoking when they stop teenagers from having sex. When they stop gays from 'barebacking', I might think about stubbing out my butt. I don't want to see people riding motorcycles, using stairs or crossing the street without a police escort. No waterskiing, scuba diving or running on anything other than a government approved treadmill (and only under supervision then). All that stuff's dangerous. Gotta protect the sheep so our Model of Marxist Medicine- the NHS doesn't collapse. Yah! Just do me up man! Just do us all up, baby! We're sheep anyway! Just strap us down and pop a tube in our arms. Sit us in front of a telly showing the BBC all day long and we'll be model citizens! Yeah baby! Sounds like heaven on Earth.

If they're worried about the cost of NHS they ought to do the morally correct thing- scrap it!

[friendly]

If they're worried about the cost of NHS they ought to do the morally correct thing- scrap it!

Bottom line truth.