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Tax package Bush will sign guts middle class {"Fair" Tax replaced by VAT in "Tax Reduction" Bill}
WorldNetDaily / Commentary ^ | Posted: May 26, 2003 | By Joan Veon

Posted on 05/26/2003 7:07:15 AM PDT by George Frm Br00klyn Park

WorldNetDaily / Commentary

Bush tax package guts middle class


Posted: May 26, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Joan Veon
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

Using tactics of deceit and distortion, President Bush will sign a tax bill that was literally dictated by him to Congress and passed by the Senate late last week while the writers were still crafting it. What is being put into action will not only completely gut our entire tax code but will add a level of taxation that heretofore was only known by the children of Israel when pharaoh commanded them to make bricks without straw.

The tax deductions have been sold to the American people as creating more jobs but the truth of the matter is that Congress feels you and I are not paying enough in taxes. What Bush has done, Clinton could not have ever gotten away with: a tax on everything we buy – otherwise known as a Value Added Tax – for you and I.

If you think you pay a lot in tax now, just wait and see what the Republicans – or should I say, "neocons" have in store for us. Let me give you a glimpse.

First, a Value-Added Tax system is a more "purer" form of tax because it is structured like the morning dew – it will tax everything and every process . For example, currently you are not taxed on the activity (not the gain but the activity) of buying or selling a house. Under a VAT, we will be taxed. Currently you are not taxed for the professional services of our doctor and dentist – those services will have a tax.

The basic structure of a VAT is that it is essentially equivalent to a tax on wages and pure profits – in other words, it is a superior form of tax. In fact, it is a "vertical" tax – depending on how the VAT is structured, every phase of manufacturing and production will be taxed. Currently it is not taxed. For example, the farmer who grows sheep will pay a tax to buy the sheep, then, when he sells the sheered wool, the weaver who buys it from the farmer will pay a tax on that purchase. When the weaver who spins the wool into fabric sells it to a pants factory, the processed wool will be taxed. When the factory sells the pants to the department store, another tax will be levied. At each phase, while there may be some offset in the tax between the various stages of production, you will be taxed on the cost of the shirt which also includes the tax that was paid at each phase. Will the price of the shirt increase – absolutely! So will the cost of living.

According to the International Monetary Fund, the VAT is a more modern tax, providing the ability to tax each phase of production and also the turnover of goods and services, thus increasing the cost to live while providing a greater income stream to the government. A VAT is basically sustainable development at its finest. Government can't continue spending unless it increases its income stream!

Now this brings me to another point – the need for government to increase their income. Do you remember John Maynard Keynes and his socialistic "Keynesian economics"? Essentially, back in 1933 when America went into a major depression, Franklin Roosevelt relied on the "innovative" thinking of Keynes who recommended deficit spending to create new jobs. Well, 70 years later, every level of government in the United States is broke.

Currently, the U.S. government is $7 trillion in debt. Democrats, who have opposed this bill from the beginning, project that under the weight of the huge tax reductions being given to the very wealthy, that by 2013 when it is fully phased in, our debt will rise to $12 trillion or $36,000 for every person in the United States. Basically the July tax rebates we are going to receive will help contribute to this figure.

Nothing like paying one credit card with cash from another!

Furthermore, instead of you and I paying taxes and receiving a service, we now live in a time when our government is privatizing (selling its assets to reduce its debt), changing the code so it can increase its income while reducing services to you and I. Under the current tax system, mortgage interest and charitable contributions are deductible. These will have to be sacrificed to provide the government with a greater and constant income stream. Simply put, a "pure tax" is basically "squeezing" the turnip – which is you and I.

So how does a government with a VAT increase revenue? In order to switch to a VAT from our current system of taxing income, the tax brackets of the rich will be reduced from 38.5 percent gradually over a 10-year period to the targeted 21-27 percent VAT rate. This level of taxation is the level that will produce the same amount of tax under our current system. At the same time, the tax brackets of those who have an income of $1 million and above is being reduced, those who currently don't pay tax because they have too little income will have be subjected to an increasing tax bracket which may start out at 10 percent but will have to rise to meet the brackets of the extremely wealthy at 21-27 percent. Is your back breaking yet?

So – what if, in this time of never-ending war on terrorism, the government still does not have enough income? Well, then the rate can be increased. For example, in 1973 when England introduced the VAT, it started at 10 percent ... today it is up to 18.5 percent.

Lastly, the president and his cabinet are unwilling to even admit that they are gutting the current system and putting a VAT in place that will benefit those like Warren Buffet who calculated that he will save $300 million while his secretary's tax rate will increase. This tax bill should be more accurately called, "The Gutting of the Middle Class."

Joan Veon is a certified financial planner and is president of Veon Financial Services, Inc., an investment advisory firm. Visit her website, WomensGroup.org.

THIS article at WND


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bsalert; bushtaxcuts; nwo; tax; taxreform; tinfoilalert; valueaddedtax; vat
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To: scripter
LOL!

Next time I'll write the FReepmail before I post the comment!
81 posted on 05/27/2003 9:57:57 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: Taxman
You have FReepmail. :-)
82 posted on 05/27/2003 10:07:45 PM PDT by scripter
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To: FreedomCalls
Dig a little deeper into this. You will find that the only people called neocons by the left are Jews. No one calls Ronald Reagan a neocon, yet he was once a liberal democrat.
83 posted on 05/28/2003 3:30:20 AM PDT by SubMareener
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To: ancient_geezer
AG, Just exactly what do you fellows call those millions of dollars of investment "income" that Harry won't pay taxes on?
Oh I thought you said "Old money" Harry, I see you want to tax people on the money that provides jobs through creating businesses.

AG, Harry's "old money" has looong been spent, and Harry is now wallowing in new money made from investing tax free.
and their money-handlers. Peace and love, George.
-------------------------------
Any type of sales tax is designed by the wealthy and their sycophants for the wealthy
LOL, sure George. Like your Flat VAT/Income Tax that embeds the tax in the price of goods and services where folks just see taxes as inflation instead of as a charge detailed against their purchase prices.

AG, All forms of taxation pass ALL of a business's costs on to the consumer or they go out of business. Even owners and employer's taxes and wages and expenses even if not recorded. Even in your NRST. It's all "VAT".
----------------------------
And does making untaxed money on investment {dollars you don't spend} count as a "benefit"??
How is it a benefit when it is not be spent by its owner? To be untaxed, it must remain unspent/re-invested to provide for growth of the economy, by someone other than the owner spends it and it get taxed anyway.

AG, Accumulating wealth is not a benefit in itself? And, in what country does the economy grow??
-------------------------------
Is this still not socialism.
Since when is not having to pay or receiving a return of excess tax payments socialism.

AG, Anytime that a transfer of money is made by government to an entity to effect any government promoted "society preference". In this case "family".
---------------------------------
AG, does that "Estimate" of"Effective" tax rate include deductions and/or exemptions?
It is on gross dollars before any exemptions, exclusions, deductions or credits of any kind.

AG, This I saved for last because these numbers are the basis for your whole arguement. Many times, deductions and exemptions reduce the "effective" 32% top tax rate to an actual 7-15%.
=====================================

Your whole arguement is based on smoke and mirrors to say the least, if not a downright lie. Using statistical "estimate" numbers creating an illusional "Effective" tax rate that has no resemblance to the factual reality of taxes paid. An example is the Presidential salary that is in the 32%"highest bracket".

By the way, I never "clicked" on any link in your post. The reason I have blocked IPs is because at one time or another, while "surfing", an IP with no relation to my current interest plugs into my computer and makes my hard drive "sing". It ain't necessary. Peace and love, George.

84 posted on 05/28/2003 6:45:26 AM PDT by George Frm Br00klyn Park (FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!)
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park; ancient_geezer; Bigun; Dick Bachert; *Taxreform
George, you are going to be one mighty unhappy camper when President Bush shepherds the NRST into law (2005? One can only hope and pray!) and tosses your beloved progressive income tax and its supporting class warfare and envy arguments on the ash heap of history.

Tell you what, I'd offer to buy you a beer to help ease your pain, but the memory of the millions of victims of this murderous philosophy will not allow me to.

Instead, I am going to, metaphorically, p!ss on the grave of the progressive income tax and its supporting class warfare and envy arguments, and for good measure, I am going to metaphorically p!ss on the ash heap of history, as well.
85 posted on 05/28/2003 7:22:42 AM PDT by Taxman
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To: Trust but Verify
I'm just waiting for an Uncle Bill post.
86 posted on 05/28/2003 7:27:30 AM PDT by rintense (Thank you to all our brave soldiers, past and present, for your faithful service to our country.)
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To: Taxman
Your choice, George, is to lead, follow or get out of the way, because your cherished Communist Manifesto is dead!
Can you you hear me George?
COMMUNISM IS DEAD!
CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW, GEORGE? COMMUNISM IS DEAD!
===============================

TM, Communism as written in Marx's manifesto has never been "alive". And, God willing, it will never be. Of course, the socialists who attain power will see that it never "lives", because they would lose their power when that happened. So........

I have been trying lo "lead" you to a flat tax {NOT PROGRESSIVE} based on income system that allows for the equal opportunity free interprise that has allowed for people in this country to flourish in freedom. NOT a "market" that is encouraged by a tax code, and controlled by government and their chosen toadies in the fixed game. Due to statistics you seem to have accepted from the "fair" taxers, you decline to follow.

I will stay in "the way" as much as I can though to prevent the implementation of the socialist {maintaning and strengthening of a social hierarchy that any tax based on sales engenders} investor promoting NRST.

I believe in equal rights, opportunity, and free interprise. I have no idea where you guys came up with the idea that I "cherish" the Communist manifesto. I've never even read it, let alone studied or pushed it. Unless of course I am merely being villified and censored as was common in the former{?} Union of Soviet Socialist Republics that some call "communist" while they proclaim "communism is dead". {/rant} Hey, stay passionate. Peace and love, George.

87 posted on 05/28/2003 7:33:10 AM PDT by George Frm Br00klyn Park (FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!)
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park

AG, Accumulating wealth is not a benefit in itself?

How is money(i.e. investment) some one else has and spends, wealth to one's self?

Who benefits the most, the spenders of the invested money or the one who invests.

There is no wealth accrued to the possessor until it is spent by that owner. Until then it is nothing more than numbers in a computer.

And, in what country does the economy grow??

Since we are talking about Americans, obviously this country is where money is being spent and benefits the most.

Anytime that a transfer of money is made by government to an entity to effect any government promoted "society preference". In this case "family".

Since every legal resident in the nation receives the FCA how does this act as a preference for "family". It doesn't.

AG, This I saved for last because these numbers are the basis for your whole arguement. Many times, deductions and exemptions reduce the "effective" 32% top tax rate to an actual 7-15%.

So? what's your point?

To state a range of rates without comparison to other groups or a definition of what precisely is being included in your tax rate is of no value whatsoever.

You figure no tax other than income is ever paid by anyone?

The top 1% income group pays 35.7% total tax. With individual income tax at 23%.

The bottom 20% pay 4.5% total tax, while paying a negative (-6.9%) individual income tax.

The average family pays 24.4% total tax, while paying 11.2% individual income tax.

 

http://www.cbpp.org/taxday98.htm

CBO Estimates of Effective Federal Tax Rates for 1998

Families Ranked by Income Quintile

Individual Income Tax

Social Insurance Taxes

Corporate Income Tax

Excise Tax

Total Federal Taxes

Lowest -6.9% 7.8% 0.5% 2.8% 4.2%
Second 1.7% 9.9% 0.9% 1.6% 14.2%
Third 6.3% 10.8% 1.4% 1.2% 19.7%
Fourth 9.0% 11.3% 1.4% 1.0% 22.7%
Highest 16.2% 8.0% 4.6% 0.5% 29.3%
 
Top 10% 18.0% 6.7% 5.8% 0.4% 30.8%
Top 5% 19.7% 5.3% 7.0% 0.3% 32.3%
Top 1% 23.0% 3.0% 9.5% 0.2% 35.7%
 
Average for all families 11.2% 9.3% 3.0% 0.9% 24.4%
Source: Congressional Budget Office, May 15, 1997.
Notes:  Pre-tax family income is the sum of wages, salaries, self-employment income, rents, taxable and non-taxable interest, dividends, realized capital gains, and all cash transfer payments. Income also includes the employer share of Social Security and federal unemployment insurance payroll taxes, and the corporate income tax. For purposes of ranking by adjusted family income (AFI), income for each family is divided by the poverty threshold for a family of that size. Quintiles contain equal numbers of people. Families with zero or negative income are excluded from the lowest income category but included in the total.
Individual income taxes are distributed directly to families paying those taxes. Payroll taxes are distributed to families paying those taxes directly or indirectly through their employers. Federal excise taxes are distributed to families according to their consumption of the taxed good or service. Corporate income taxes are distributed to families according to their share of capital income.

88 posted on 05/28/2003 7:51:44 AM PDT by ancient_geezer
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To: Taxman
ROFLMAO! Good one, Frank!!

This means, of course, that you are now OFF George's "A" party list.

89 posted on 05/28/2003 7:51:44 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (Whom God would destroy, He first makes insane.)
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park
Maybe Russia today is a better place to raise your children.

Well, what are you waiting on? Leave!

After all, there is no salida ilegal here. You are more than free to go.


Doing bad things to bad people.

90 posted on 05/28/2003 8:01:56 AM PDT by rdb3 (Nerve-racking since 0413hrs on XII-XXII-MCMLXXI)
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park; ancient_geezer; Bigun; Dick Bachert; *Taxreform
LOL! Well, that is progress, George.

Apparently, you can hear me. It is good to know that you support the Flat Income Tax -- you are half-way to the point you need to be. As I am very fond of saying, "If you like the Flat Income Tax, you will love the National Retail Sales Tax."

HST, I will not be "led" to the Flat Income Tax, George, I am well beyond the Flat Income Tax -- been there, done that.

The Flat Income Tax is still an income tax; the income tax, whether progressive or flat, and the people who support any form of income tax, are in my sights -- they are the enemy of FReedom loving people.

I stand for maximum individual FReedom and Liberty, George, and whether the government steals 5%, 10%, 30%, 50% or more of my (or anyone elses', for that matter) income is immaterial -- the fact that the government can determine how much to steal FRom me (and my conutrymen and women), without my (or their) permission, is what bothers me. Not to mention the privacy issue -- it is no one's business how much money I or anyone else makes, particularly, some government pogue in the IRS bureaucracy!

FYI, FRom roughly 1970 to 1991, I thought that a Flat Income Tax was the solution to the problem, but I was not completely comfortable with the notion because of the privacy issue mentioned above. Then, I read a Pat Buchanan editorial on April 17, 1991 which thoroughly changed my mind.

I realized I had it only half right, and the missing piece of the puzzle was that a pure consumption tax minimizes government intervention in a person's economic life and maximizes said individual's FReedom, Liberty and privacy, as guaranteed by the Founding Fathers.

That Pat Buchanan article was, as they say, a "My Defining Moment," tax-wise. Been a strong advocate of the NRST ever since then.

As for the thinking that the NRST is a "Socialist plot" to impoverish the middle class, you are dead wrong. Real Socialists hate the NRST, because it empowers not only the middle class, but all Americans. And the NRST will allow any US resident who chooses to do so to become rich if they work hard (and smart) and save and invest, because as their circumstances improve, they will not be punished for their successes as they are now.

Please forgive me for believing you were a Marxist ideologue, but I must say tht the theme of your posts on these tax threads seemed to indicate that you were/are a Marxist ideologue. In my lexicon, if a person supports a progressive income tax, they are a Marxist -- it is, as you know, the second plank of the Communist Manifesto.

"As life is action and passion, it is required of a man that he should share the passion and action of his time, at the peril of being thought not to have lived."

Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

91 posted on 05/28/2003 11:39:56 AM PDT by Taxman
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To: Dick Bachert
LOL! Well, I wouldn't exactly "fit in," don'tchaknow?
92 posted on 05/28/2003 11:40:45 AM PDT by Taxman
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To: Taxman
WELL said Taxman! Well said indeed!

B R A V O ! ! !

93 posted on 05/28/2003 2:09:59 PM PDT by Bigun (IRSsucks@getridof it.com)
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To: Taxman
I do think ol' George is coming around. A couple of years ago, he was pushing for an asset tax (tax based on net worth) -- now he's come round to a flat income tax. Maybe by 2005, he'll be joining the party we throw when the income tax is scrapped.
94 posted on 05/28/2003 2:20:52 PM PDT by kevkrom
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To: scripter
if you have an FR ping list, please add me to it

I don't think that there's a "ping list" per se, but you can look for articles indexed by the (pseudo-)user "*Taxreform".

95 posted on 05/28/2003 2:47:02 PM PDT by kevkrom
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To: kevkrom
Thanks for the info.
96 posted on 05/28/2003 2:55:32 PM PDT by scripter
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To: SubMareener
No one calls Ronald Reagan a neocon, yet he was once a liberal democrat.

I thought it only referred to those converted since 9/11. Reagan was a convert long before that.

97 posted on 05/28/2003 3:06:35 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty" not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: FreedomCalls
You really need to do some more research!
98 posted on 05/28/2003 3:42:00 PM PDT by SubMareener
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park
Under the current tax system, mortgage interest and charitable contributions are deductible. These will have to be sacrificed to provide the government with a greater and constant income stream.

Perhaps true, but in the new tax package...will they? This author needs some more facts before goimng off half cocked.

99 posted on 05/28/2003 3:48:04 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (®)
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To: FreedomCalls
Try 'Neocon': Slang for 'Jew'?

OR 'Neocon' Becomes a Confusing Code Word

100 posted on 05/28/2003 3:52:25 PM PDT by SubMareener
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