Government targets 'Jesus' sign

World Net Daily ^ | May 25, 2003 | World Net Daily

[milan]

A borough government in Pennsylvania says freedom of speech does not extend to a man's large "Jesus is Lord" sign, threatening the man with jail time if he doesn't remove it, reports the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat.

[AgThorn]

How dare this man tackle our free society by posting such an obnoxious sign!!!

[Eccl 10:2]

"...you really wanna know what freaks me out? Not only the "serpant" speaking to Eve, but the donkey speaking to Balaam."

Cool! Never looked at it that way. I guess if the Lord could make the donkey talk, He could make Balaam want to listen. Then before Balaam could think about it, the angel appears to him too. If I saw that, then nothing would seem strange.

Sort of like the "baseball men" in Field of Dreams. Once Timothy Busfield's character finally saw them, his first reaction was "Don't sell this farm, Ray!".

[ChiMark]

The ACLU was silent on Waco. If there ever was a cause for the ACLU. Time to contact the ACLJ.

[nmh]

Why do you need a permit to put this kind of a sign up? He owns the property, right? What's he violating? By that logic then people putting political signs out are also violating the borough? Or are just Democratic poster children allowed to be posted to satisfy their First Amendment rights?

[milan]

Why do some Christians seem to have the need, such as this man, to be so ostentatious about his faith? Isn't it the way one lives one's life that is important? Nothing wrong with proclaiming one's faith, but why so in-your-face?

How is posting a sign ON HIS PRIVATELY OWNED BUILDING considered "IN-YOUR-FACE"?

I don't like you flying the American flag in YOUR yard. Take it down. It too "in my face". Get real. It is his private property and it is not offensive.

Yes, he broke the ordinance, but you, like many others on this thread are missing why I posted it to begin with. If he was gay, trans, or black, the ACLU would have said "damn the city ordinance; first ammendment, private property, racist, sexist, white, choice, etc."

[nmh]

"I used to travel that area on the way to college from where I grew up. There are religious signs all over the place. On the hills as you are driving through, you can see crosses and signs praising Jesus."

So you don't find this odd that THIS sign is problematic when there are "religious signs all over the place"?

"Honestly, I give Worldnet credit for twisting the issue, as usual."

If what you say is true, then how is World Net Daily, "twisting the issue, as usual"?

Don't you see the contradicton in what you've said concerning World New Daily or the borough for that matter?

[nosofar]

This is the site.

http://www.tribune-democrat.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=8100904&BRD=2332&PAG=461&dept_id=484742&rfi=8

[milan]

I'm just wondering what type of pervert would even think of such a sign as "Eat Me"? That's one very strange thought. Besides, I don't think anyone in here is looking for help from perverts. The question seems to be would the ACLU come to the aid of the perverts with "Eat Me" sign. I think they would.

Thanks you for understanding English. Many people on this thread think that I posted it to defend the guy. No, although I don't think what he did is the end of the world. But, the ACLU would have helped others. Their stupid arguement given in the article is laughable.

[nmh]

"Romans 13:1 says: "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

Really? You forgot that if people DO obey the government when it defies God's ways must face consequences. Just like when Hitler was in power, people readily obeyed Hilter's laws however the defied God's ways SO people rose up AGAINST the laws of man in order to serve God. In other words, not all man's laws are compatible with God's ways SO man must make a decision -

Obey God or obey man?

If they obey man, then there will be consequences by God. If they obey God, there will be consequences by man.

It was right to disobey Hilter, and over throw him even though it wasviolating Hitler's laws. If we were to take your advice and obey man, we'd be in worse trouble than we are already in. It's true that man's laws are more and more in opposition to Christianity, so your misguided philosophy is prevailing.

[Kuksool]

If the town enforces its laws on everyone without exception, then the Jesus sign ought to go down. However, I do understand your point about the ACLU. The ACLU would definitely defend the man if the sign stated "In the name of Allah, the compassionate, the merciful" on the grounds of racism.

[nmh]

Wait till God vindicates the Lamb. He won't be humble or gracious. It will be pure wrath. Remember Jesus in the Temple? It's untrue that Jesus was a pushover as you suggest. As followers he does expect us to stand up for Him.

[nmh]

"Cool! Never looked at it that way. I guess if the Lord could make the donkey talk, He could make Balaam want to listen. Then before Balaam could think about it, the angel appears to him too. If I saw that, then nothing would seem strange. "

Know what else is interesting? The reaction by the angel when the donkey was abused. God is not an advocate of animal cruelty. I'm not saying that God elevates animals over people - not at all. Just that He has disdain for mistreatment of animals since they are also part of His creation.

[maxwell]

It's untrue that Jesus was a pushover as you suggest.

Huh?

[nmh]

Here's the verses I'm referring to: (Numbers 22)

[21] And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab.

[22] And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.

[23] And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.

[24] But the angel of the LORD stood in a path of the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side.

[25] And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again.

[26] And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.

[27] And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.

[28] And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

[29] And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.

Blind Balaam assumed the donkey was just being disobedient.

[30] And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay.

[31] Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.

[32] And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me:

[33] And the ass saw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive.

The angel would have saved the life of the donkey but NOT the man for mistreatment. Interesting, huh?

[34] And Balaam said unto the angel of the LORD, I have sinned; for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me: now therefore, if it displease thee, I will get me back again.

Again, I'm not the kind who elevates animals over man but God does care about animals and expects good treatment of them as well.

[nmh]

I suspect that before the "Fall" animals and humans easily communicated with one another. The serpent spoke to Eve and there was NO shock or fear. Occasionally we see animals today that have a VERY close relationship with man such as dogs. They are often called man's best friend. There are MANY stories on how these animals have saved human lives or served as eyes for the blind (seeing eye dogs). Or take dolphins - how they help us. There seems to be some kind of communication, affection and understanding between some animals and man. It's fascinating when you think about it.

[nmh]

"It's untrue that Jesus was a pushover as you suggest."

You: Huh?

What is your problem with that statement? Read up on the Temple incident and I believe you may understand what I was saying in another reply. He didn't let man's laws stop Him from voicing His opinion. Did He?

[LiteKeeper]

SPOTREP

[Eccl 10:2]

Certainly it is the correct choice to disobey man's law when it is contradiction to God's law.

It's a stretch to say that a sign ordinance is in contradiction to God's law. To say nothing of what an obnoxious witness his sign is. I would rather he's have taken his money and quietly done some Godly work, without fighting for attention.

[maxwell]

My response to you is articulated quite nicely in Eccl's post #98.

[milan]

It's a stretch to say that a sign ordinance is in contradiction to God's law. To say nothing of what an obnoxious witness his sign is. I would rather he's have taken his money and quietly done some Godly work, without fighting for attention.

"Jesus is Lord" in large neon letters on the side of an old car dealership is obnoxious?

Let me tell you a little story. When I was a kid my uncle witnessed to me over about a period of a week. Something was stirring inside of me. On my 7 hour trip home I saw "obnoxious" "john 3:16" painted on over passes, "Jesus" on highway signs, and bumber stickers up the waazoo. Now the athiests will think I am nuts, but God was calling me. He used my uncle, over passes, highway signs, and bumper stickers. Every time I saw any refernece to God, regardless of where it was, I knew! I almost found it comical. But guess what. My uncle, over passes, street signs and bumper sticker did it!

What this man did was against the law...not God's law. Should he take the sign down. I would fight it. It is not obnoxious. How dare you say any type of witness is obnoxious, however unorthodox that it may be. How do you know that some kid wasn't coming home from his uncle's and saw that sign? How do you know some drug addict wasn't changed by that "obnoxious" sign? How do you know whether or not that sign will stir something in somebody, anybody?

Yeah, he broke the city ordinance. The ACLU would defend other groups in a similar situation. They aren't defending this man. Why? Becuase he is a Christian. And he is trying to make a difference with an "obnoxious" sign he spent $10,000 on.