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Conceal-carry bill’s backers, foes square off
Columbus Dispatch ^ | 21 May 2003 | Lee Leonard

Posted on 05/21/2003 9:56:47 AM PDT by Deadeye Division

Conceal-carry bill’s backers, foes square off
Wednesday, May 21, 2003
Lee Leonard
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

Ohioans should be able to arm themselves against criminals who have no regard for human life or the law, state senators were told yesterday by the deputy police chief of Gahanna, whose sister was murdered two years ago by her estranged husband.

"Criminals carry guns, and they don’t give a hoot what goes on in these chambers,’’ Larry Rinehart told the Senate Judiciary Committee on Criminal Justice, which is considering legislation permitting Ohioans to carry concealed weapons under limited conditions. "Those law-abiding citizens deserve the right to arm themselves.’’

Rinehart’s testimony in favor of House Bill 12 contrasted with the position taken by the Ohio Association of Chiefs of Police, which consistently has fought the conceal-carry proposal.

John Gilchrist, executive director of the group, was not among the dozen witnesses yesterday, but he has said in the past that allowing Ohioans to carry concealed weapons poses a danger to police officers.

Some other opponents told the committee the bill would lead to a proliferation of guns, and still others oppose the measure as too strict. They want to be able to carry weapons without mandatory training or licensing.

A number of women testified that they need a conceal-carry law to protect themselves. They were supported by Rinehart and Gahanna Police Chief Dennis Murphy, who said they would welcome civilians’ help in busting criminals.

"I cannot guarantee the safety of any citizens of Gahanna,’’ Rinehart said. "Safety is a right and responsibility of the individual. Conceal-and-carry is a tool to be used in an emergency.’’

Rinehart said he was told by relatives in San Antonio that they have concealed weapons and carry them while driving to foil would-be carjackers and robbers.

"They said the only time they’re vulnerable is when they’re in their cars, driving around mall parking lots or sitting at traffic lights,’’ he said.

One of the major issues in the battle over the gun bill is whether drivers should have loaded weapons on the seat beside them. Proponents say they need quick access to thwart an assailant. But the State Highway Patrol has insisted that any handgun be locked in a compartment, such as the glove box.

The Gahanna officers said they would feel no less safe with a concealed-weapons law because any law-enforcement officer approaching a car assumes there is a gun inside until proven otherwise.

"Right now, every police officer that makes traffic stops better expect (a motorist) to have a gun in the car,’’ Rinehart said. "It’s taught at the (police training) academy.’’

Murphy also expressed no fear. He said more criminals would skirt the law than lawabiding citizens.

But Kenneth J. Steinman, assistant professor at Ohio State University’s School of Public Health, said claims of crimestopping individuals carrying concealed handguns are exaggerated.

Steinman, who said he was testifying as a "concerned citizen’’ and not for the university, said a conceal-carry law will do nothing to reduce violent crime, and might even increase it.

He said Ohio’s rate of gun-related homicides is lower than surrounding states’, and that it’s foolish to predict the effect of conceal-carry based on other states’ experiences.

Steinman was joined in his opposition by advocates of an unrestricted Vermont-style gun bill. House Bill 12 requires a criminal background check, including fingerprinting, and 12 hours of training including firing practice.

Doug Joseph, executive director of the Ohio Gun Rights Coalition, said the background check and fingerprinting violate an individual’s right to privacy and constitutional rights.

Joseph told senators he would rather have no bill than the restrictive H.B. 12. He said the Ohio Supreme Court later this year might overturn Ohio’s existing ban on concealed weapons, which would give Ohioans an unfettered right to carry concealed handguns.

Merianne Sanderson, a single mother who owns a gift shop in Cincinnati, called for passage of the bill.

"I need to take responsibility for defending myself and my family,’’ she said. "We’re not dealing with a ‘guy’ thing here. I feel the citizens of Ohio need the right to protect themselves. The police are not my personal bodyguards.’’

But Eleanor W. Helper of Columbus, whose daughter Susan was injured by a gunman this month at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, opposed the bill.

"I think this increases the probability of gun violence,’’ she said.

lleonard@dispatch.com


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: banglist; ccw
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1 posted on 05/21/2003 9:56:47 AM PDT by Deadeye Division
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To: *bang_list
Bang
2 posted on 05/21/2003 10:01:53 AM PDT by Deadeye Division
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To: Deadeye Division
But Kenneth J. Steinman, assistant professor at Ohio State University’s School of Public Health, said claims of crimestopping individuals carrying concealed handguns are exaggerated.

Steinman, who said he was testifying as a "concerned citizen’’ and not for the university, said a conceal-carry law will do nothing to reduce violent crime, and might even increase it.

This individual is full on nonsense, of course, since all available evidence indicates that concealed carry will decrease rather than increase violence. I think that most people at this sight know that.

However, I think this guy is representative of the majority of Ohio citizens that will be testifying before the legislature. And since our slug of a Governor has already said that he will veto any CC law that doesn't meet with the approval of politically connected police chiefs in the state, I'm guessing that we will not see CC any time soon. Not happy, just realistic...

3 posted on 05/21/2003 10:03:24 AM PDT by jscd3
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To: jscd3
Your governor is a RINO. Too bad Ohio doesn't have Tim Pawlenty. <sigh
4 posted on 05/21/2003 10:05:16 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Joe Brower
More goodies for the list.
5 posted on 05/21/2003 10:07:22 AM PDT by m1911
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To: AAABEST; wku man; SLB; Travis McGee; Squantos; harpseal; Shooter 2.5; The Old Hoosier; xrp; ...

6 posted on 05/21/2003 10:29:31 AM PDT by Joe Brower (http://www.joebrower.com/)
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To: Deadeye Division
"I think this increases the probability of gun violence,’’ she said.

Ah, yes. I THINK, or I FEEL.

Facts be damned. It's all about the feelings of those who CHOOSE to be defenseless.

7 posted on 05/21/2003 10:29:36 AM PDT by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: Deadeye Division

Link here
8 posted on 05/21/2003 10:34:33 AM PDT by drq
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Deadeye Division
John Gilchrist, executive director of the group, was not among the dozen witnesses yesterday, but he has said in the past that allowing Ohioans to carry concealed weapons poses a danger to police officers.

And since when were the citzens of Ohio here for the safety of the police?! We are not trusted enough by the state police leaders to be able to defend ourselves as they are allowed to. One of the many reasons why anytime the police want any law passed I'll oppose it. Gun control, tinted windows, harsher penalties for assaulting a cop than for assaulting the rest of us....etc.

10 posted on 05/21/2003 11:05:27 AM PDT by Orangedog (Soccer-Moms are the biggest threat to your freedoms and the republic !)
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To: goldstategop
Your governor is a RINO. Too bad Ohio doesn't have Tim Pawlenty.

He's worse than a RINO. He traded on the name Taft - the epitomy of old school conservative Republican. And he lied through his teeth about his support for concealed carry. The only reason he is still here is because of the sociopathic losers run by the DemocRATs in the last two elections.

As of now, I'm thinking Blackwell in the next election, but he could turn out to be a fraud as well. We will see...

11 posted on 05/21/2003 11:09:59 AM PDT by jscd3
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To: jscd3
I certainly hope that Blackwell is the real thing. What do you think of Jim Petro or Betty Montgomery?
12 posted on 05/21/2003 11:59:53 AM PDT by sparkomatic (I wish I were gullible; then I'd be like everyone else)
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To: Joe Brower
But Eleanor W. Helper of Columbus, whose daughter Susan was injured by a gunman this month at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, opposed the bill.

"I think this increases the probability of gun violence,’’ she said.

So if someone had used violence against the man who injured her daughter before her daughter was injured she would be opposed to that? She obviously prefers that people die and be injured rather than have a chance to employ defensive violence to protect themselves and others. The current law led to her daughter's injury and she prefers that, insane.

13 posted on 05/21/2003 12:47:18 PM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: sparkomatic
I think that they are both honest and technically competent (unlike that slimy creep Lee Fischer, or by current mayor, the beloved Jane Cambell for exp.), but they are pretty solidly "moderate" republicans. Consequently, they will never support anything so controversial as CC, substantial tax cuts, real changes to education, etc. They may say some nice things about these issues (but not to loudly), but their hearts won't be in it. I could be wrong.
14 posted on 05/21/2003 1:14:27 PM PDT by jscd3
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To: jscd3
"by" = "my"
15 posted on 05/21/2003 1:25:35 PM PDT by jscd3
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To: jscd3
Just because OSU trashed their own school, destoryed private property, rioted in the streets, and stole private property after the Bowl game, doesn't mean his narrow view of crime is the same for the rest of the state.
16 posted on 05/21/2003 1:27:24 PM PDT by mabelkitty
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To: harpseal
Ping the Case Western Reserve thread - shooter was Indian, made threats previously, and was an extreme Leftist.

Let's ban these types of folks before we start attacking the gun issue - it's not connected.

It took SWAT, FBI, and Cleveland Cops well over seven hours to get one guy.

If one student had a gun, they could have taken him out before he got past the lunch room.
17 posted on 05/21/2003 1:29:18 PM PDT by mabelkitty
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To: jscd3
I like them both.
18 posted on 05/21/2003 1:30:26 PM PDT by mabelkitty
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To: mabelkitty
Well, I hope I didn't sound like I was bad-mouthing them. I really think that they are decent enough people. I just don't think that they will ever push for positions that are out of the moderate mainstream.
19 posted on 05/21/2003 1:37:27 PM PDT by jscd3
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To: jscd3
We'll have to wait and see.

However, I don't see any new Republicans coming out of Jim Trakas's camp. Why aren't they fostering new candidates?

I'm waiting for Jamie Callendar to run for LaTourette's seat. He's an amazing Conservative, and would make the rest of the House blush.
20 posted on 05/21/2003 1:46:30 PM PDT by mabelkitty
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