THE ODD LOGIC OF LAWYERS

THE LOGICAL VIEW ^ | 5-14-03 | MARK A SITY

[logic101.net]

THE ODD LOGIC OF LAWYERS MARK A SITY 5/14/03

Recently in a Chicago suburb a strange ritual took place, a high school hazing incident in which put 5 girls into the hospital with various injuries. Bottles and cans were thrown at younger girls by senior girls, several bones were broken and some of the bottles and cans hit girls in the head. But these were all "good kids", according to one's mother, her daughter "just made a mistake", and she "shouldn't be punished for it for the rest of her life" by being expelled. This mother is also trying to get her daughter's 10 day suspension removed so that there will be no punishment. Just recently another law suit was filed on behalf of another of the violent punk senior girls. I'm sure the parents of the girls in the hospital have another view, but no matter. I have no doubt that had the tables been reversed these same parents would be outraged and insisting on as much punishment as possible for the aggressors; including expulsion and assault charges. To my mind, I made a "mistake" the other day on Free Republic when I thought that Tom Delay was in the Senate rather than the House. I don't view cracking a 16 yr old girl over the head with a bottle to be a mistake; I view it as an assault! There is a strange "suburb culture" that insists that parents bail out their children no matter what they do. It seems the concept of punishment, and the benefits of letting their kids know there are consequences to their actions are repugnant to them. Sadly, there are all too many lawyers happy to take these cases, and find twisted logic to support bad or even violent behavior.

Of course, there are lawyers quick to tale these cases and to argue that these senior girls just made "mistakes" and should not be punished. Well, Jeffery Dahlmer made some "mistakes" too; why did we insist on punishing him? Is it just because instead of learning from his "mistakes" he tended to eat them? I suspect that Jeffery had parents that liked to bail him out of all his troubles also; regardless of what he may have done. Did this help him in the long run? I think not.

This leads me to my next point on "Lawyer Logic"; the Oreo Cookie suit. Some CA Lawyer decided to sue over the "trans- fatty acids" in Oreo Cookies. Well, what are "trans fatty acids"? Gee, it turns out they are partially hydrogenated vegetable oils. This is what margarine is made from. This is what vegetable shortening is made from. Basically we are talking about cooking oil! The suit couldn't call it vegetable oil of course; it would be laughed out of court. So this lawyer used a new term, just like the HS students at a science fair used the term "di-hydrogen oxide" for water to get people to sign off on a petition to ban its production a few years ago. If the manufacturer of Oreo cookies changed the formula to use an animal fat like butter or lard the lawyer would be able to use common terms. However, the "Food Police" have told us we SHOULD eat vegetable fats instead of animal fats. To make this fly the lawyer had to cover up the true nature of the oils he insists are bad for us; even though we have been told for over a generation that the other option will kill us, and this is what we should use for cooking and baking.

This lawyer insists that vegetable oils will kill our kids. The Food Police insist that animal fats will kill our kids. Peta says meat will kill us all. The EPA says that certain pesticides will kill us all. The rail nuts insist that cars will kill us all. The anti-smoking Nazis insist that smoke will kill us all. The global warming nuts insist that their issue will kill us all. The Democrats insist that Pres Bush will kill us all. Al Quida insists that they will kill us all. Years ago the anti-egg people insisted that eggs would kill us all - this statement was quietly retracted in small, little noticed footnotes long after many small egg producers were driven out of business.

So, what do we have here? We have the Lawyer Class arguing on the one side that violent individuals who commit crimes be given no punishment, and on the other side corporations who commit no crimes, and try to put out the safest product possible (as defined by the Food Police) be punished and ruined.

Personally, I think that if we don't get control of the Lawyer Class; they will be the ones to do us in. I wrote a letter to the editor (published) when the tobacco law suits first reared their ugly heads titled "Who's Job Next", warning of the cash grab by the Lawyer Class. Sadly, my warning was not heard by many. Now we are seeing what I predicted and tried to prevent. Yet, too many were happy to jump on the anti-smoking bandwagon to listen to my warning.

As my second favorite former congressman used to say; "Beam me up Scotty, there is no intelligent life down here".

MARK A SITY

http://www.logic101.net/

[logic101.net]

X

[sarasota]

I'd like to see the piece titled "The Odd Logic of Parents".
There wouldn't be such an outcry about lawyers if parents only knew how to tell right from wrong. Instead we have to have lawyers spell it out for us--according to legal gymnastics.

[xJones]

I don't view cracking a 16 yr old girl over the head with a bottle to be a mistake; I view it as an assault! There is a strange "suburb culture" that insists that parents bail out their children no matter what they do.

That was an assult, and the parents of the assulted girls should go after the bullies, regardless of their parents in denial. It is a strange culture, not limited to suburbs, where the parents swear up and down that their children were just innocent kids, when, if it had been done to their children, they'd go ballistic.

[Bahbah]

Good one.

[TomB]

This leads me to my next point on "Lawyer Logic"; the Oreo Cookie suit. Some CA Lawyer decided to sue over the "trans- fatty acids" in Oreo Cookies. Well, what are "trans fatty acids"? Gee, it turns out they are partially hydrogenated vegetable oils. This is what margarine is made from. This is what vegetable shortening is made from. Basically we are talking about cooking oil!

This lawyer insists that vegetable oils will kill our kids.

I agree with the point of your article, and I may be picking nits here, but you comments equating "trans-fats" and vegetable oils are incorrect. Trans-fats are what are made when vegetable oils are processed (hydrogenated). This creates a completely different substance.

Aruanan, comments?

[Blue Collar Christian]

Agreed. No personal responsibility, no consequences for misconduct as a result of this type of upbringing. Blame someone else, especially if they represent success.

Sounds like the Democrat platform to me.

[mtngrl@vrwc]

So, what do we have here? We have the Lawyer Class arguing on the one side that violent individuals who commit crimes be given no punishment, and on the other side corporations who commit no crimes, and try to put out the safest product possible (as defined by the Food Police) be punished and ruined.

There are good and bad lawyers, just as there are good and bad teachers. We need to encourage the good ones and speak out against the bad ones.

[ContemptofCourt]

There are good and bad lawyers, just as there are good and bad teachers. We need to encourage the good ones and speak out against the bad ones.<p.Wow....a logical comment!

[longtermmemmory]

I saw the lawyer talking on OReily. Its a bizzare logic but it does make sense.

The activity was NOT part of a school actictivity.
The school actually stopped sponsoring it.
The group that established the activity was not part of the school system.
The activity took place off school property.
so....
The school reacts as if it happened on school grounds?

The school may be able to ban groups and societies ON campus but off campus that is beyond their perview. (We don't allow republican party members on campus, what you have the FNC on cable? sorry thought crime. Sorry no NRA members allowed.)

What I am betting is that the lawyer is seeking to move this to criminal court where fellow parents may not be so quick to prosecute.

[OldFriend]

I'd like to see the suspension removed too......because the student is sitting in a jail cell and the suspension would not be needed.

[logic101.net]

This is why trial lawyers are the biggest Dem contributors. Dems are for the rich trial lawyers.

MARK A SITY

[logic101.net]

No, the post should not be "the odd logic of parents", but rather "the odd logic of well off suburban parents". It seems the middle class neighborhoods are ok, and the farm communities are ok; it is the really well of suburbs that don't think their kids should face any punishment for their actions. Odd; you'd think it would be different.

Mark A Sity

[Mr. Bird]

I was wondering about the whole "school function" aspects myself. If a kid robs a store, he doesn't get suspended or expelled from school (although penalties such as juvenile detention may require his withdrawal). Could this situation be equated to kids getting loaded at a pre-prom party at someone's house?

The larger question for me is: How many high schools out there have hazing rituals. I remember the movie Dazed and Confused portrayed a Seventies high school in which hazing was prevalent. We had no such thing in Florida in the Eighties. I would have kicked the crap out of a senior who tried to haze me...

[longtermmemmory]

The Mandatory Bar organizations (not the ABA) are dominated by large law firms. The larger firms are the ones who are the top donors. The mandatory Bar organizations are only mildly interested in smal firms or sole practitioners.

So, years ago if you were evicting someone you take them to court and since they had no money you could process the paperwork fairly quickly. (there are always smart alec examples but the day to day work could be done quick) So, then come the funding of Legal Aid associations. This is usually done with the interest on mandatory escrow accounts. Usually tiny sums kept for small periods. Now the landlord has to hire a lawyer to defend against the legal aid lawyer who is making all sorts of bizzare accusations. (scorpions,snakes,etc.) The larger landlords now use a firm and pay regular retainers to keep the evictions flowing.

These large firms are neither conservative nor liberal they only go where the money is.

[fella]

Sounds like the Democrat platform to me.

Now your get'n it. It's the Republicains that have "forced" the Texas demonrats to go to Oklahoma and it's President Bush who has "forced" them to trample our Constitution. The control of our education system and mainstream media, by the left, for over 50 years is what has lead to this.

[sarasota]

These particular parents really have no idea what their kids are up to. Listen to them. They've been caught with their proverbial pants down.

[RipSawyer]

"It is a strange culture, not limited to suburbs, where the parents swear up and down that their children were just innocent kids, when, if it had been done to their children, they'd go ballistic."

This is the culture of backwoods, uneducated "Deliverance" types and it has now reached the suburbs because most people who earn middle class incomes now are uneducated, they are merely trained in whatever it takes to make money. Real education is disappearing from the scene.

[Abynormal]

Well Shakespeare was right. "Let's kill all the lawyers."

[aruanan]

I agree with the point of your article, and I may be picking nits here, but you comments equating "trans-fats" and vegetable oils are incorrect. Trans-fats are what are made when vegetable oils are processed (hydrogenated). This creates a completely different substance.

Aruanan, comments?

All saturated fats, whether of animal or vegetable origin, are fully hydrogenated. Mono and poly-unsaturated fats are partially hydrogenated. Take a saturated fat, remove a hydrogen somewhere in the chain to create a double bond instead of a single bond between carbons and you have a mono-unsaturated fatty acid. If both ends of the chain on either side of the double bond are on the same side, it's a cis mono-unsaturated fatty acid. If one end is on one side and the other end is on the other, it's a trans mono-unsaturated fatty acid.

When vegetable oils (typically poly-unsaturated--this is why they're liquid at room temperature) are hydrogenated, hydrogen atoms are added to their (mostly) double bonds, making them more like saturated fats (this is why saturated fats like lard or coconut oil are solids at room temperature). When adding the hydrogen through catalytic means, some of the fatty acids produced have the trans configuration. Trans fatty acids are also produced naturally and are found in dairy products. For the same number of unsaturated bonds remaining in them, trans fatty acids are stiffer than cis fatty acids. It is believed that a large amount of trans fatty acids, like a large amount of fully saturated fats, can cause cell membranes to become stiff in a way that is not conducive to good health. The principal cause of concern about trans fatty acids is that they behave like saturated fats which can impair the function of the LDL receptor leading to an increase of serum cholesterol as well as to an increase in cholesterol synthesis.

The weird thing is that people bitched about the dangers of saturated fats and wanted vegetable oils to be used. But the vegetable oils, to be useful, had to be partially hydrogenated, creating trans fatty acids. Now the same people who were crusading against the use of saturated fats are back crusading against the solution to the previous problem they had proposed.

However, since the introduction of partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, the lifespan in those countries using them has continued to lengthen. There is no increase in cancer other than that related to tobacco and/or alcohol use (the reason that more old people than young people get cancer is because they've finally been able to live long enough to develop it--and better nutrition, including trans fatty acids and all the chemicals and preservatives, has been responsible for their increased longevity). Riding in an automobile or bus to school poses a far greater risk to student health than do trans fatty acids in Oreo cookies. This is junk litigation based on junk (or abused) science with the major objective being the lining of the attorney's pockets.

[TomB]

LOL. Thanks. I can always count on you.