Posted on 05/13/2003 6:17:13 AM PDT by VMI70
This past weekend, my son and I went on his troop's annual father-son hike. His troop is one of many in the Robert E. Lee Council of the Boy Scouts of America, which is headquartered in Richmond, VA.
On Sunday, during the church service at the end of the hike, it was announced that the Council directors had voted to change its name from The Robert E. Lee Council, which has been in use for many decades, to something else.
This morning, the news broke on the local radio station: WRVA 1140 AM, Richmond's Morning News with Jimmy Barrett.
yes, so did the north till sometime AFTER the war.
It was that way under the Articles of Confederation.
Under the Constitution, the power shifted from the states to the people -- because it had to. The Articles were a failure. The Constitution has been a success.
Walt
You are mistaken.
Most people in the north wanted a soft peace. This is surprising when you consider how barbarously the rebels acted in treating Union POW's and loyal Union men, who were murdered by the hundred and hanged by the dozen respectively, but it is still true.
Walt
There are no "gays" allowed in BSA Scouting and religion is a base tenant of the program.
You must have us confused with the Girl Scouts which IMHO have gone PC.
BSA took our case to the Supreme Court regarding Gay's and Atheists and won....can't be either and be a Scout or Scout Leader....
NeverGore
Just under one-third of Southern families owned slaves. In South Carolina and Mississippi, almost half owned slaves.
Sometimes a person, or an institution, does something that is so horrific that it overrides all virtue the person or institution may otherwise have. John Wayne Gacy may have been a nice guy, but he murdered a couple of dozen boys. Hitler may have loved his dog, and Joan Crawford may have given money to charity when she wasn't beating her daughter with a clothes hanger.
Slavery was horrific, and if people didn't recognize that in 1791 (date of the Constitution), then they realized that over the next 70 years.
I normally would stand beside my neighbor and defend his home against federal intervention regarding how he raised his children, like if he wanted to homeschool. However, if he had his children in shackles, or abused them, or claimed to own them and be able to sell them, then at that point he lost the right to his own "sovereignity" over his family.
The South lost that right with slavery (and we can argue all day about what portion of the cause of the Civil War was slavery, because we all know there were other elements).
Even if States had not left the Union and joined the CSA, at some point the government should have forced the Southern states to abandon slavery.
I don't understand how anyone can support military action by the US against other countries in the interest of "freeing" people from oppressive governments and not understand that the concept of OWNING another human being is so contrary to the concept of basic, God-given freedom.
Lincoln gets a MUCH better press than he desreves
I can only assume that you are a victim of the neo-reb propaganda, or you are willingly pushing an interpretation based on skewed information.
You should consider what President Lincoln wrote later in life. He came to believe that blacks deserved all the blessings under the flag they fought so nobly to defend.
In 1862 Generals Hunter and Butler issued emancipation documents of varying force. Lincoln had them revoked.
He knew that sentiment in the north was such that it was too soon to go for emancipation. But when he played the compensated emancipation and colonization cards, border state leaders and black leaders were cold to that. The very next day after he met with border state representatives, July 12, 1862, he decided on emancipation as a war measure. And he took that step --when-- he took it --because-- his political sense told him that the north would accept it, this within days after the bloodbath at Antietam.
This is why Frederick Douglass said that Lincoln was "swift, radical, zealous and determined."
Lincoln also used his great --political-- skills to assess when and if voting rights for blacks be acceptable to the great mass of whites -- at least in the north. The attempt to legitimize blacks as Americans can be seen in these letters he wrote :
Private
General Hunter
Executive Mansion
Washington D.C. April 1, 1863
My dear Sir:
I am glad to see the accounts of your colored force at Jacksonville, Florida. I see the enemy are driving at them fiercely, as is to be expected. It is mportant to the enemy that such a force shall not take shape, and grow, and thrive, in the south; and in precisely the same proportion, it is important to us that it shall. Hence the utmost caution and viglilance is necessary on our part. The enemy will make extra efforts to destroy them; and we should do the same to preserve and increase them.
Yours truly
A. Lincoln
_________________________________________________________
Hon. Andrew Johnson
Executive Mansion,
My dear Sir:
Washington, March 26. 1863.
I am told you have at least thought of raising a negro military force. In my opinion the country now needs no specific thing so much as some man of your ability, and position, to go to this work. When I speak of your position, I mean that of an eminent citizen of a slave-state, and himself a slave- holder. The colored population is the great available and yet unavailed of, force for restoring the Union. The bare sight of fifty thousand armed, and drilled black soldiers on the banks of the Mississippi, would end the rebellion at once. And who doubts that we can present that sight, if we but take hold in earnest? If you have been thinking of it please do not dismiss the thought. Yours truly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hon Soc of War
Executive Mansion
Washington
July 21, 1863
My Dear Sir:
I desire that a renewed and vigorous effort be made to raise colored forces along the shores of the Missippi [sic]. Please consult the General-in-chief; and if it is perceived that any acceleration of the matter can be effected, let it be done. I think the evidence is nearly conclusive that Gen. Thomas is one of the best, if not the very best, instruments for this service.
Yours truly
Lincoln also proposed --privately-- to the new governor of Louisiana that the new state constiution include voting rights for blacks. A year later, in April, 1865 he came out --publicly-- for the suffrage for black soldiers, because his great --political-- skill told him that the time was right.
It was a direct result of this speech, and this position, that Booth shot him.
President Lincoln, besides ordering the army (note that this is only a few months after the EP) to use black soldiers more vigorously, made many public speeches to prepare the people for the idea of black suffrage.
"But to be plain, you are dissatisfied with me about the negro. Quite likely there is a difference of opinion between you and myself upon that subject. I certainly wish that all men could be free, while I suppose that you do not. ....peace does not appear as distant as it did. I hope it will come soon, and come to stay; and so come as to worth the keeping in all future time. It will have then been proved that, among free men, there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and that they who take such appeal are sure to lose their case, and pay the cost. And then, there will be some black men, who can remember that, with silent tongue, and clenched teeth, and steady eye, and well-poised bayonet they have helped mankind on to this great consumation; while, I fear, there will be some white ones, unable to forget that, with malignant heart, and deceitful speech, have strove to hinder it. Still let us not be over-sanguine of a speedy final triumph. Let us be quite sober. Let us dilligently apply the means, never doubting that a just God, in his own good time, will give us the rightful result."
8/23/63
"When you give the Negro these rights," he [Lincoln] said, "when you put a gun in his hands, it prophesies something more: it foretells that he is to have the full enjoyment of his liberty and his manhood...By the close of the war, Lincoln was reccomending commissioning black officers in the regiments, and one actually rose to become a major before it was over. At the end of 1863, more than a hundred thousand had enlisted in the United States Colored Troops, and in his message to Congress the president reported, "So far as tested, it is difficult to say they are not as good soldiers as any." When some suggested in August 1864 that the Union ought to offer to help return runaway slaves to their masters as a condition for the South's laying down its arms, Lincoln refused even to consider the question.
"Why should they give their lives for us, with full notice of our purpose to betray them?" he retorted. "Drive back to the support of the rebellion the physical force which the colored people now give, and promise us, and neither the present, or any incoming administration can save the Union." To others he said it even more emphatically. "This is not a question of sentiment or taste, but one of physical force which may be measured and estimated. Keep it and you can save the Union. Throw it away, and the Union goes with it."
--"Lincoln's Men" pp 163-64 by William C. Davis
Lincoln's sense of fairness made him seek to extend the blessings of citizenship to everyone who served under the flag.
His great political skill made him realize that blacks --were--not-- leaving -- he played that card and no one was biting, black or white. That being the case, he knew he had to prepare for the future, and that future involved full rights for blacks.
Walt
From what you posted in your #120,,,,where do you get the hate meaning????????????????????
Hitler never had plans beyond securing the "lebansraum" in the east. He got sidtracked some, but he never considered world conquest.
Walt
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