The Conservative-Libertarian clash: Values and the free society

Enter Stage Right ^ | May 12, 2003 | By W. James Antle III

[JURB]

This article does a very good job of encapsulating my own political beliefs within the great libertarian/conservative divide.

[Cathryn Crawford]

Seriously, read this. Don't just sort of skim it than say, "Whatever", okay?

[CatoRenasci]

Not bad at all. There has always been a significant tension between conservatives and libertarians.

Some conservatives, such as Santorum and Bennett share a political philosophy that does not oppose government's intrusive interference in private behavior to regulate morality. I would argue, at some risk of giving offense, that these views reflect a growing tension in American 'conservatism' that has resulted from the great increase in Catholic political conservatism here.

While the Puritans certainly regulated private as well as public morality, there has been a strong move away from that view in Protestant thinking over the past 250 years. The general Anglo-American worldview based on Protestant roots is strongly Lockean and emphasizes individual liberty. While for most it doesn't extend to the sort of libertarian views you seem to have (and which I often, but not always, share), claims of privacy and individual liberty are not alien to those reared in this tradition. Separation of Church and State is a distinctly American Protestant notion.

The modern conservative Catholics, of the Santorum and Bennett stripe, and I would also include the odious Pat Buchanan, stem from the European Catholic conservative tradition of the Counterreformation, the Inquisition and the 19th century cri d' coeur of the papacy against the modern world and classical liberalism. On a fundamental level, those men really don't believe in a right of privacy (whether constitutionally grounded or grounded in some natural law theory) and don't really believe in the separation of church and state. The believe in compelling people to be good, rather than preaching at them to be good.

I don't mean to suggest that Catholicism is the problem, rather that there is a strain in Catholic thought that is manifesting itself and which is not good for the Republic.

[vpintheak]

I have recently switched to the Libertarian side, and greatly understand this piece. A good read. FReep on!

[gcruse]

Maybe so, maybe not. Big 'L' Libertarianism has some bad ideas, eg, open borders, anti-Iraqi war. Maybe we small 'l'ers need a different name?

[muir_redwoods]

One cannot Conserve what one never had. I believe we need to establish a constiturtion republic on Libertarian principles. We had a good start but let it get away from us.

[cinFLA]

rather that there is a strain in Catholic ___________ thought that is manifesting itself and which is not good for the Republic.

Substitute any political/relegious sect in the above.

[cinFLA]

I believe we need to establish a constiturtion republic on Libertarian principles.

Libertarians believe in repealing ALL drug laws, even for minors.

Libertarians believe in open borders.

Libertarians advocate the childs authority to declare himself an adult.

[cinFLA]

I have recently switched to the Libertarian side, and greatly understand this piece. A good read. FReep on!

Every Libertarian site is linked to a NORML site
Every NORML site is linked to a Libertarian site

(see post #8)

[DPB101]

Strip away the cant about what they want and look at the practical effects of what Libertarians say and there is little difference between them and Democrats. They are for national defense but nothing in the real world ever seems to fit their criteria of legitimate national defense. They are for freedom in education but against vouchers. They are for tax cuts but any tax cut a Republican has a chance of passing isn't good enough. They are for freedom of religion but always find a reason why religion should be driven out of the public square ("government shouldn't be in education ergo we should not allow religion to be spoken of in government schools").

[Uncle Miltie]

Justin Raimondo calls himself a Libertarian. I certainly wouldn't want to be in his camp.

[AdamSelene235]

Every Libertarian site is linked to a NORML site

Please show me the link from The CATO Institute to NORML.

[Malcolm]

The GOP represents my values, the LP is nowhere close. I have some libertarian sympathies, but the LP is not the same thing. Any Christian who is involved with the LP is doing so in ignorance, or is not really a Christian in the Biblical sense of that word. I am not totally pleased with the Republican Party but it is much closer to my conservative and religious views than any other party ever will be.

[RJCogburn]

Thanks for the ping. Good article.

Interesting that it avoids mention of God and Scripture which seems, as Cato implies above, to be the big motivator in the enmity that the most 'moralistic' conservatives express toward those who embrace a general small 'l' libertarian approach, whether they are devout, atheists, or anything in between.

[RJCogburn]

Excellent comments.

My Latin is terrible, but I enjoy your various taglines and I've got this one figured out.

[Ohioan]

"If I had to sum up the common moral vision of libertarians and conservatives, I would say it is a commitment to the idea of the dignity of man." As Feser went on to note, libertarians tend to emphasize the fact that this means the individual cannot be used as a means to another's end while conservatives tend to emphasize conformity to a moral law that reflects this special dignity. But each emphasis in its own way reflects a belief in the uniqueness of humanity and the inherent value of the individual. It is because of this belief that in the United States and (to a lesser extent) Canada conservatives and libertarians, for all their differences on many issues, have so often collaborated in a crucial task: Conserving a society with a tradition of valuing individual liberty.

I really do not have a problem with this sort of analysis, except for one point. It falls into the trap of those who would divide us, by assuming that Conservatives & Libertarians are two separate, and ideologically consistent--if not disciplined--movements; that these movements come together and fuse, or certainly cooperate on many levels.

While those who adhere generally to certain mental bents, which may be described as one or the other, do indeed have many beliefs in common and often do work together; the fact is that there is no such thing even remotely resembling a monolithic body of Conservative thought, or a monolithic body of Libertarian thought. Indeed, the idea that there really could be such a thing is absurd in the context of the many roots of traditional American culture--what I would refer to for the sake of this reply only, as the "Old American Diversity." What is Conservative in Virginia is not necessarily Conservative in Maine, etc.. By the same token, Libertarians in some States are virtually indistinguishable from Conservatives--the Jeffersonian tradition being profoundly Libertarian, yet now the Conservative tradition of the South and much of the West.

Personally, as an exponent of the doctrines of the Founding Fathers, which were certainly Libertarian in comparison with what we have in Washington--and Columbus--today; I find all attempts to divide Conservatives and Libertarians to be counter-productive. That does not mean that individuals will not commit themselves to particular causes that reflect their deeply held beliefs--and individual Conseratives will sometimes fight with other individual Conservatives and/or with individual Libertarians. But that is only what it should be in a free and reflective society. Let us not magnify those differences out of all proportion, or lose sight of the pathetic course that most politics has been taking throughout the past Century, with the exception of the Reagan victory in 1980. We need both Conservatives and Libertarians who support the Conservative ethos of traditional America, to regain the initiative.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

[gcruse]

Yes, post #13 puts a face on it.

[The Green Goblin]

They are for freedom of religion but always find a reason why religion should be driven out of the public square ("government shouldn't be in education ergo we should not allow religion to be spoken of in government schools").

Libertarians are against the very existence of government schools, so your argument is moot on that point...

[RJCogburn]

The GOP represents my values, the LP is nowhere close.

Okay, but the article did not mention, I believe, the Libertarian Party.

[cinFLA]

Please show me the link from The CATO Institute to NORML.

The Cato Institute is NOT a Libertarian site.