WHO or WHOM? A 90% Trick

Self | 30APR03 | bannie

[bannie]

In a recent thread, we discussed teachers' various abilities/inabilities. With the banter about math "blocks," I had to start calling people on the frequent mis-usage of the pronoun "that."

I teased others--and I hope the understood my playful intent! Even true mathematicians can make simple mistakes in math. Likewise, even true grammarians can make simple mistakes in grammar. I only made note because of the subject of the thread (An English teacher who was having trouble passing a required math test).

In the thread, I mentioned that I could give a quick-fix lesson on how to determine whether one should use the pronoun "who" or the pronoun "whom."

The Rule:
WHO = SUBJECTIVE
WHOM = OBJECTIVE
or...
While "who" holds the grammatical position of a SUBJECT, "whom" holds the grammatical position of an OBJECT.
Subject = the "doer." Object = the DIRECT OBJECT or the INDIRECT OBJECT or the OBJECT of a preposition...the "do-ee."

THE TRICK:

IF replacing the who/whom in question with HE--simply because it SOUNDS BETTER--use WHO.

IF replacing the who/whom in question with HIM--simply because it SOUNDS BETTER--use WHOM.

IE:
With the question:

To who/whom should I give the "Offed by a Clinton" Award?

Try replacing the space with each, "he" and "him."
Although it's not totally "sensical," the better sounding choice is...

To HIM should I give...

(more clearly, Should I give the "Offed by a Clinton" award to HIM?
SOOOOOooooo...since "HIM" = "WHOM,"

the correct "who/whom-ness" of the question should be:

To WHOM should I give...?

IE:
Who/Whom was the oldest goat in the pool?

Try replacing the space with each, "he" and "him."

It makes much more sense to the ear to replace the who/whom with:

He was the oldest...

than with:

Him was the oldest...

SOOOOOoooooo....since "HE" = "WHO"...

The answer is...WHO was the oldest goat in the pool?

[jejones]

OK...it might be better to turn questions into declarative statements, because the nominative/accusative distinction is the same. Which looks right, "You trust he" or "You trust him"? The latter (I hope :), so it's "Whom do you trust?"

[Fifth Business]

I think the confusion with lie/lay is introduced with the past tense, where lie becomes lay.

[Spirited]

A "bad button" for me is hearing, "Good" as a reply to, "How are you?".

[derlauerer]

I before E except after C

That's not the whole rule. The whole rule is "I before E except after C, when the sound is 'EE'".

When the sound is not 'EE', the rule does not apply. Also there are a few exceptions, the commonest of which is "seize".

Personally, I get upset when people use words the meanings of which they clearly neither understand nor can be bothered to look up.

For example: the use of "ironically" to mean "co-incidentally"; of "only" to mean "few" (as in "he was one of the only men to survive the attack"); of "unique" to mean "rare" (as opposed to "the only one of its kind"), or of "disinterested" to mean "uninterested".

And don't get me started on the confusion between "its" (belonging to it) and "it's" ("it is" or "it has").

[bannie]

will and shall

AS I BELIEVE IT TO BE, "will" is not as absolute as "shall."

I SHALL, however, research this one further: There must be more to it...such as the auxillary verb thing. Offhand, I'm not thinking of all of the rules for this. Great question.

:-)

[Diddle E. Squat]

What was a goat doing in the cement pond?

[Fifth Business]

AS I BELIEVE IT TO BE, "will" is not as absolute as "shall."

If I recall correctly, it depends on the person. I shall becomes I will for emphasis, whereas he will becomes he shall for emphasis.

[ThinkLikeWaterAndReeds]

ok, ok now i understand about he and him - what about she and her

[VermiciousKnid]

LOLOL

Gosh, I wish I could get the hang of posting pictures...

BTW, when I was little my mother taught me this one:

To determine if a word is a preposition, fill in the blank:

A bird flew ________ a cloud.

If it makes even a little sense, the word is a preposition, and therefore no sentence should ever end with it. (A sentence ending in a preposition is something up with which she would not put...)

Regards,

[bannie]

affect/effect

EFFECT is a noun. ("It has an effect on me.")

AFFECT is a verb. ("This affect us all adversely.")

[NCLaw441]

Yes, along with the use of "they" when one is afraid to use the neutral "he" and related constructions. For example, What parent doesn't want THEIR child to succeed? We used to be quite comfortable saying What parent doesn't want his child to succeed, knowing perfectly well that half of parents are women. In the 70s and 80s there was some usage of a gender revolutionary nature, militantly using she and her in place of he and his, etc. A good teacher knows HER students. Oh well.... if this is the greatest of our worries we are not in too bad shape.

[jejones]

Well... I don't know whether the distinction that I was given in school was ever really used. In school I was told that "will" is simple future, but "shall" indicates intent. (I vaguely recall even being told that the distinction depended in part on first person versus second and third, so that for second and third person it's the other way around!) Etymologically, this makes no sense, because "will" is cognate to Dutch and German "willen," to want (e.g. "Ik wil een kopje koffie kopen," "I want to buy a cup of coffee."), so "will" ought to indicate intent.


It does at least give rise to a bad joke. Q: how can you tell which of two drowning English teachers is committing suicide? A: The suicide cries out "I shall drown; no one will save me!" while the victim cries out "I will drown; no one shall save me!" (Miss Methvin, wherever you are, I'm sorry...)

[NCLaw441]

Turn the sentence around a bit, and it becomes clear:
Do you trust HE?
vs.
Do you trust HIM?

[Diddle E. Squat]

Now if you could only teach half the posters the difference between 'lose' and 'loose'...

[NCLaw441]

You knew it was nickEL, right?

[Diddle E. Squat]

So The Who blew it?

[Huber]

Who affects the Who's effects?

Little Cindy-lou Who, that's who.

Who dissects the Who's diced eggs?

[jejones]

"Affect" is a verb (outside of a relatively obscure psychology usage); "effect" is a noun (OK...it can be used as a verb, e.g. "to effect a drastic change"). For example: Kryptonite doesn't affect Earthlings; it has no effect on them.

[NCLaw441]

Here is my stab and affect/effect. Generally, affect is used as a verb, and effect is a noun. The only frequent use of effect as a verb is in the expression "to effect a change" or the like.

[j_tull]

"...Good" as a reply to, "How are you?".

It's funny the looks I sometimes get when my answer is, "I am well, thanks."