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Mysterious Decline - Where are the Men on Campus?
The American Daily ^ | April 30, 2003 | Glenn Sacks

Posted on 04/30/2003 3:51:39 PM PDT by Lando Lincoln

Mysterious Decline-Where Are the Men on Campus?

By Glenn Sacks on 04/30/03

Everybody wants to know where all the men have gone. The Washington Post calls their disappearance the "question that has grown too conspicuous to ignore," and USA Today notes "universities fret about how to attract males as women increasingly dominate campuses."

Females now outnumber males by a four to three ratio in American colleges, a difference of almost two million students. Men earn only 43% of all college degrees. Among blacks, two women earn bachelor’s degrees for every man. Among Hispanics, only 40 percent of college graduates are male. Female high school graduates are 16% more likely to go to college than their male counterparts.

“This is new. We have thrown the gender switch," says Christina Hoff Sommers, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and author of The War Against Boys: How Misguided Feminism is Harming Our Young Men. "What does it mean in the long run that we have females who are significantly more literate, significantly more educated than their male counterparts? It is likely to create a lot of social problems. This does not bode well for anyone."

"As a nation, we simply can't afford to have half of our population not developing the skill sets that we are going to need to go into the future," says Susan L. Traiman, director of the Business Roundtable's education initiative.

Researchers from Harvard University, the University of Michigan and the United Negro College Fund have now agreed to study the issue.

"This is a powerful issue we need to stop talking about in generalities and really dig into," says Michael L. Lomax, president of Dillard University in New Orleans. "We just can't figure out how to get more male applicants, and we're not going to turn students down on the basis on gender," Lomax says. "I don't understand what is happening in the male community that is making education seem less attractive and less compelling."

The trend is unmistakable and some fear it is irreversible. Men made up the majority of college graduates when the first national survey was conducted in 1870. Except during World War II, when slightly more females enrolled than men, males were in the majority until men’s graduation rate began to decline in the late 1970s. By the early 1980s women began to represent the majority of graduates.

In total, the U.S. Department of Education estimates that 698,000 women received bachelor’s degrees in 2002, compared to 529,000 men.

Yet the loss in national productivity that this trend portends is not a concern to some. Jacqueline Woods, executive director of the American Association of University Women, denies that men's declining enrollments is a crisis or even a gender issue. She notes that those concerned about boys' sagging educational performance are "playing a zero-sum game" and says "I refuse to play." Columnist Ellen Goodman dismisses boy-friendly educational reformers as being motivated by the fact that "educated women have always made some people nervous." She, Woods and writer Barbara Ehrenreich argue that the college gender gap is another example of the disadvantages faced by women! According to Ehrenreich, “men…suspect they can make a living just as well without a college education, since they still have such an advantage over women in the non-professional workforce.”

Not only are the problems of college males being minimized in some quarters, but also much of the discussion of the lack of males in college surrounds the destructive impact it may have upon females. For example, an ABC.com report on the subject gloats "No More Big Man on Campus?” while declaring that the "College Gender Gap Could Mean Women Lose Mating Game" and asking "Must Women Go Slummin'?" Canadian journalist Lysiane Gagnon laments in the Globe and Mail that "the next generation of Quebec women might face a difficult love life...in a few years the province will be filled with high-paid, ambitious, professional women. Across the dance floor will be a large group of losers -- uneducated men stuck in small, low-paying jobs."

A Hidden Issue

Sophomore Adam Petkun and Senior Jesse Harding at the University of Oregon, who work at the Associated Students office, are typical of many male students on campuses across the country. They didn’t know that women outnumber men on their campus. They were both surprised, but not shocked by the information. Neither had any thoughts on why it was occurring or seemed concerned about the trend. Martin S. a junior at Portland State University after giving it some thought didn’t think the trend is ultimately a good thing. “I don’t know why this is going on. It seems like blue collar physical jobs that usually go to men are on the decline, so you’d think there would be more men attending college not less. I know some guys who have taken to going into high-tech and feel they don’t need a degree, but even in quite a few of those jobs a degree is obviously a help. It’s a mystery to me.“

It is also apparently a surprise and a mystery to most high school counselors.

“The few counselors I have talked with seem surprised by the trend,” said Richard Wong, executive director of the American School Counselor Association, the nation’s largest school counseling group. “I don’t think there has been a conscious effort to exclude white males, because historically they have been able to take care of themselves. A lot more attention has been paid to other groups, minorities and women, but perhaps the pendulum has swung too far.” Although the ASCA has conducted initiative programs for women and minorities, it does not plan any affirmative campaign to address the decline in male college attendance. “If it becomes a major issue the board will likely consider a response,” said Wong.

According to Mark Kuranz, a former president of the ASCA and currently a high-school counselor in Racine, Wisconsin, “Certainly college is very accessible for girls, and there is more competition with boys for the available spots. You would think however, there would a leveling off or the attendance and the graduation rate would be pretty level. Perhaps we have begun to expect less from boys.”

An Early Start to Giving Up on College?

Boys have fallen seriously behind girls at all K-12 levels. By high school the typical boy is a year and a half behind the typical girl in reading and writing. Girls get better grades than boys and boys are far more likely than girls to drop out of school or to be disciplined, suspended, held back, or expelled. Boys are four times as likely to receive a diagnosis of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder as girls, and the vast majority of learning-disabled students are boys.

The problem is a complex one, but a fundamental reason behind the phenomena is that modern K-12 education is not suited to boys' needs and learning styles. Success in school is tightly correlated with the ability to sit still, be quiet, and complete work that is presented in a dull, assembly line fashion. There is little outlet for natural boyish energy and exuberance in schools, and as a result many boys-even those as young as five or six-- end up being given Ritalin or other drugs so they can sit still. At every step of the way those whose natures are least accommodating to this type of education--boys--fall by the wayside.

Boys’ educational problems often begin as soon as they go to kindergarten. Michelle Ventimiglia, director of a Los Angeles pre-school, says:

"Our schools simply aren't made for boys. I see this every September when my students go into elementary school. My boys do great here, but when they go on to elementary school all of a sudden some of them become ‘behavior problems’ or ‘bad kids.’ How can a six year-old be ‘bad?’

"Children need physically connected activities, particularly boys. They learn best by doing. Too often teachers find it easier to simply give them worksheets instead. And now, with so much time being devoted to testing and preparing for testing, teachers' repertoires are even more limited, which is bad for children, particularly boys."

When boys are unable to fit into a school environment that clearly is not suited to them, they are often diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder and given Ritalin or other drugs. Nearly nine million prescriptions of Ritalin are written for American children each year, most of them for boys between the ages of six and 12. According to Stanford University's Thomas Sowell, author of Inside American Education: The Decline, the Deception, the Dogmas, the drugging of boys is “part of a growing tendency to treat boyhood as a pathological condition that requires a new three R's repression, re education and Ritalin.” He notes: “The motto used to be: ‘Boys will be boys.’ Today, the motto seems to be: ‘Boys will be medicated.’"

Kuranz says these issues are beginning to be addressed in schools. “The conversation is beginning to be heard” regarding more active learning methods and the over-use of Ritalin.

Less For Men’s Sports

The decline of men’s college sports has also contributed to the disappearance of men on college campuses. Title IX of the Education Amendments Act of 1972 bars sex discrimination in any educational program or activity that receives federal funding. In the decades since, women's athletics have burgeoned in high schools and colleges. Title IX was and remains an important and laudable victory for the women's movement.

Some feminist groups, however, lobbied successfully to use an obscure bureaucratic action known as the 1979 Policy Interpretation to mandate that the number of athletes in college athletic programs reflect within a few percentage points the proportion of male and female students on campus. The problem is, as studies have shown, fewer women than men are interested in playing organized sports, even though the opportunity is available. Even in all-female colleges the number of women athletes fall considerably below that needed to satisfy Title IX requirements in coed colleges.

In addition, the current Title IX equity calculations are misleading because they count college football's athletes and dollars without considering football's moneymaking ability. In fact, over 70% of Division I-A football programs turn a profit.

Thus schools are caught in a vise. Because schools need football's revenue yet must also equalize gender numbers, they are forced to cut men's non-revenue sports.

Todd R. Dickey, University of Southern California’s general counsel, and many others argue that football should simply be taken out of the gender equity equation because no other sport earns as much revenue, has such a large number of athletes or staff, and needs as much equipment. "You can't spend as much on women's sports as you can on men's, because there is no women's equivalent for football," Dickey says.

Thus women have gained a little but men have lost a lot. According to the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA), for every new women’s athletics slot created between 1992 and 1997, 3.6 male athletes were dropped. During the same period, colleges added 5,800 female athletes--and cut 20,000 male athletes. More than 400 men's collegiate athletic teams have been eliminated nationwide since the advent of Title IX. Kimberly Schuld, director of the Independent Women's Forum's Title IX Play Fair! Project, calls this "clear, government-sanctioned sex discrimination."

The current situation in men’s sports in college has prompted some recent reconsideration, but no clear direction. The Commission on Opportunity in Athletics’ is looking at recommendations to Secretary of Education Rod Paige. In testimony before the commission, Deborah Zelechowski, a senior vice president at Robert Morris College in Chicago, said that she has a male student population of just 36%. ''We need more males,'' she said, ''yet we cannot offer more male athletic teams…the letter of the law of Title IX is interfering with the spirit of the law.''

An anti-male campus?

Nearly every large college campus and many smaller ones have a Women’s Studies department. There are over five hundred women’s studies departments and over one hundred colleges that offer a degree program in women’s studies. There is not a single degree program or department in men’s studies in the U.S. It is difficult to get exact numbers, but it appears that there are fewer than a dozen classes labeled men’s studies being offered in colleges anywhere. Some that are labeled men’s studies are in fact anti-male. Kenyon College, for example, has a Men’s Studies program that in the words of one professor is in opposition to, “The white, male, heterosexual, able-bodied, Christian, middle-class norm.”

Some academicians contend that the ascendancy of women’s studies on campus was a mistake. They argue that such issues do not properly belong in a narrowly defined ‘feminist’ approach to learning, but in already established fields of study such as sociology and history. In any case, there certainly has been little demonstrated movement among college administrators to offer men’s studies departments or courses, and men’s resource centers. Bret Burkholder a professor at Pierce Community College in Puyallup, Washington has set up a resource center on his campus. He says such efforts can help, “We must learn and establish alternative ways of instruction and student services support that are more in step with the predominate ways that men learn and communicate. We have to respect men, their ways of learning and expression if we are to earn their respect and trust. No one stays where they aren't wanted or valued.”

The claim that an anti-male agenda exists in our universities is difficult to understand unless one is immersed in today’s college culture.

Denesh D’Souza in his book, Illiberal Education, the Politics of Race and Sex on Campus argues that a system has emerged which has encouraged separatism: “By the time these students graduate, very few colleges have met their need for all-round development. Instead, by precept and example, the ideal of an educated person is largely a figment of bourgeois white male ideology, which should be cast aside.” He charges that the American students are getting is not a liberal education but, “its diametrical opposite, an education in closed-mindedness and intolerance.”

D’Souza and others point to Women’s Studies departments as a prime mover in this change. Thomas Sort, a professor of philosophy at Kenyon College, says, “Ideological dogmatism is the norm not the exception in Women’s Studies. They practice the very exclusion that they claim to have suffered in the past.” It is not that men are not welcome just in Women’s Studies programs. The programs may have fostered an environment in which the very presence of males on campus is a threat to a worldview that sees things only in terms of oppressors and the oppressed.

Deliberate misinformation about men and gender issues are an integral part of modern campus culture. Women's centers and women's studies departments publicize and promote discredited academic frauds like "one in four college women has been the victim of rape or attempted rape" and "domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women aged 15 to 44." Sommers, who debunked many academic feminist claims in Who Stole Feminism?, calls these "Hate Statistics." The statistics help to set up a campus mindset where it makes sense to be anti-male. If, for example, one believes the oft-stated feminist claim that on an average campus a woman is raped every 21 hours, who wouldn't be? (In reality, there is an average of less than one reported rape per three American college campuses per year).

Women's studies textbooks provide a view of the hostility towards men in our universities. According to an extensive study of women's studies textbooks released in 2002 by the IWF, a dissident women’s group, the textbooks "ignore facts in favor of myths," "mistake ideology for scholarship," and encourage students to "embrace aggrievement, not knowledge." The study, “Lying in a Room of One's Own: How Women's Studies Textbooks Miseducate Students,” examined the five most popular Women Studies' textbooks in the United States and found relentless woman-as-victim/man-as-victimizer bias and hostility. According to the author, Christine Stolba, the textbooks construe or distort studies and statistics to infer that women are miserable and oppressed, and that men are privileged oppressors.

Among the "truths" the textbooks tell students are: Women are under siege from virtually all sectors of society; little has changed for women in the past three decades; believing that women have achieved equality is "modern sexism"; and most women are not naturally sexually attracted to men but are the victims of "compulsory heterosexuality" maintained through male "social control." Bad fathers are described as the rule rather than the exception, the prevalence of sexual abuse and molestation is wildly exaggerated, and students are told that in families fathers often represent a "foreign male element" that mothers and daughters must unite against.

UCLA is one of the few universities in which a debate on the anti-male bias on campus has actually been allowed to take place, and this was only because of a full-page ad in the campus newspaper. The IWF ran a full-page advertisement in UCLA's student newspaper, the Daily Bruin, which asked "Are you tired of male-bashing and victimology?" The ad debunked what it called the "Ten Most Common Feminist Myths," including "30 percent of emergency room visits by women each year are the result of injuries from domestic violence," "women have been shortchanged in medical research," "one in four women in college has been the victim of rape or attempted rape," and others. Feminists, led by Tina Oakland, director of the UCLA Center for Women and Men, and Christie Scott, executive co-chair of the UCLA Clothesline Project, launched campus demonstrations against what Scott called "a violent ad, a very hostile ad" which "breeds a very bad attitude toward campus women." Oakland said that challenging one in four is like denying the Holocaust. A feminist professor wrote to the Daily Bruin claiming that the IWF ad served to "ferment intolerant, anti-woman...sentiment and action on campus" and "incite hate." While the Daily Bruin refused to apologize for the ad, its viewpoint editor was cowed, and expressed regret that the paper had "let something so anti-woman through." Oakland, after being castigated by some in conservative magazines, backed off of her defense of the "1 in 4" figure rape figure, explaining that "the statistics don't really matter that much in the big picture."

Can Balance be Achieved?

A serious national effort is needed to redress the gender imbalance in our universities and the biggest solution to the absence of boys from our college campuses will be boy-friendly reforms at the K-12 level. Sommers notes that one of the greatest challenges reformers face is the fact that our society is largely unaware of or refuses to recognize the boy crisis in our schools. She contrasts this with England, which embarked upon boy-friendly educational reforms in the early 90s and has met with some success.

Part of this national effort will be a retooling of our schools to create boy-friendly classrooms and teaching strategies. Boys in particular need strong, charismatic teachers who mix firm discipline with a good-natured acceptance of boyish energy. Concomitantly, a sharp increase in the number of male teachers is also needed, particularly at the elementary level, where female teachers outnumber male teachers six to one. Same-sex classes can also be helpful, and schools should have the power to employ them when appropriate.

Beyond reforms at the K-12 level, it is apparent that college campuses need to be places where males feel as welcome as females. Women's Studies needs to be either abolished, converted to Gender Studies and its texts and studies put under strict peer review, or departments of equal stature and funding need to be created that are devoted to Men’s Studies. It only seems fair and balanced. At the very least, many Women's Studies textbooks need to be replaced by texts which consider both male and female points of view on gender issues and which cite only academically credible research. Title IX needs to be brought back to its original intent, and viable men's athletic programs need to be restored.

The decline in male attendance and college achievement does not appear to be a statistical aberration, or one that will correct itself without attention being paid to the issue. Certainly society is not better off if a significant number of our best and brightest young men fail to seek or earn a college education. We need to take the first step by acknowledging that the decline of males on campus is a significant social and economic problem. This realization need not detract from the mission to provide equal educational opportunities for women. It may lead to recognizing that at least some real discriminatory lack of accommodation for males in education campus exists, and that reforms and different approaches are needed. If these steps are not taken, it seems clear that the decline of males on campus will continue at its present rapid rate.

This column first appeared in the book Abuse Your Illusions: The Disinformation Guide to Media Mirages and Establishment Lies published by The Disinformation Company. Philip W. Cook is the author of Abused Men-The Hidden Side of Domestic Violence (Greenwood/Praeger), and is the Vice President of Stop Abuse For Everyone. Glenn Sacks is a men's and fathers' issues columnist and radio talk show host. His columns have appeared in dozens of America's largest newspapers. His radio show, His Side with Glenn Sacks, can be heard every Sunday on KRLA 870 AM in Los Angeles. Glenn can be reached via his website, at www.GlennSacks.com or by e-mail at Glenn@GlennSacks.com.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: boys; christinahoffsommers; deneshdsouza; education; feminism; generationy; glennsacks; illiberaleducation; malebashing; men; militantfeminism; sports; titleix; universities; waragainstboys; whostolefeminism
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To: BeAllYouCanBe
My wife is a teacher and she confirms that the Bill Gates of the future are all being put on Ritalin.

Are the parents required to put them on Ritalin? What happens if they don't?

I am just wondering how a parent could do this to their child! That's terrible!

41 posted on 04/30/2003 6:18:13 PM PDT by BamaGirl
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To: BeAllYouCanBe
"In the old days when I was in college 1970 the lefties preached the "end of the world" by way of environmentalism. The book "The Population Bomb" was required reading in about 5 of my classes. If you even hinted that the earth maybe able to handle more than 2 billion people you were ejected from class."

I remember reading that in college in the 70's! Weren't we supposed to run out of food and be killing each other off by the 90's? Funny how they wanted western culture to limit family size but they never criticize 3rd-world nations for too many kids. As for the future, it will be a little like the Time Machine story, except the split into two cultures will be men doing all the physical work and women running everything (sorta like my house now).

42 posted on 04/30/2003 6:20:12 PM PDT by roadcat
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To: BamaGirl
"I am just wondering how a parent could do this to their child! "

My kids went to school in the 80's and my son who is now in Iraq in the Army in the infantry was singled out as a problem.

We worked through the bad years and he got better. When he was 19 he went into the Army and his aggressive nature has found a home.

If you put your kids on Ritalin that bars them from the military -- forever. The Army knows what Ritalin does -- it makes kids docile and mellow and that ain't always good.
43 posted on 04/30/2003 6:35:06 PM PDT by BeAllYouCanBe (Maybe this "Army Of One" is a good thing - You Gotta Admire the 3rd Infantry Accomplishments)
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To: roadcat
"limit family size but they never criticize 3rd-world nations for too many kids"

India did this BUT as you suggest the Muslims there didn't and now they are the fastesrt growing segment of the population.

I have read that Denmark will have a Muslim majority in 2040. I call it death by Political Correctness.

44 posted on 04/30/2003 6:43:10 PM PDT by BeAllYouCanBe (Maybe this "Army Of One" is a good thing - You Gotta Admire the 3rd Infantry Accomplishments)
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To: Lando Lincoln
"What does it mean in the long run that we have females who are significantly more literate, significantly more educated than their male counterparts?

What it's going to mean is that college is going to become less and less significant in career success. It is becoming more and more true that going to college does not make one more literate and educated.

45 posted on 04/30/2003 6:46:10 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: John123
Isn't going to college really delaying your adult life?

I have a "dropped out of college" son who could not put up with the "core" curiculum of Black & Women studies when he wanted to get on with learning something about computers that he didn't already know (he was on the internet at age 7; before www, when it was all text, Gopher searches, Seadog mail, etc.) Without college, he is the IT Director of his company, earning almost as much as me (a Structural Engineer).

College seems to have turned into 4 years of boozing for the guys and the first step in 12 years of college for the girls. My son has hired 2 PhD females to work for him and swears they will be productive as soon as he trains them. Their degrees seemed to have missed educating them to get something done and concentrated on the theoretical which is not marketable.

Similarly, my neice has a MS in Horticulture but is not interested in working in the field, just interested it teaching horticulture. ???

Beyond me!

46 posted on 04/30/2003 7:06:57 PM PDT by leadhead
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To: BeAllYouCanBe
... my son who is now in Iraq in the Army...

God bless your son and you and the rest of your family!

We worked through the bad years and he got better. When he was 19 he went into the Army and his aggressive nature has found a home.

Wow! You mean you actually spent time and effort on your son instead of popping a pill or some other easy solution! <\sarcasm off> :D

If you put your kids on Ritalin that bars them from the military -- forever. The Army knows what Ritalin does -- it makes kids docile and mellow and that ain't always good.

That's interesting, I did not know that Ritalin has permanent effects. That's so scary.

47 posted on 04/30/2003 7:07:52 PM PDT by BamaGirl
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To: templar
Correct answer. They are in jail.
48 posted on 04/30/2003 7:11:53 PM PDT by Pikachu_Dad
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To: Charliehorse
Engineering, Computer Science, Physics,etc that can be used to get a job are all dominated by men.

Have you checked the computer science enrollments lately? Seems like we see at least as many women CS grads as men. While men still dominate those other fields, the dominance is no where near as total as it once was.

The pre-college teaching field is still dominated by women, especially at the elementry level. These days many states do not allow for an "education major" so all those women are majoring in something else, often physcology or sociology, but sometimes art or literature or languages, even though their intent is to become teachers, not to work in those fields, and this skews the numbers somewhat. I believe most law schools are majority women, or "too close to call", as are med schools. I know the of the 3 or 4 student doctors that I saw along with the teacher doctor who was treating me around Christmas time, only one was male.

As a father of two daughters, it does bother me that the men these college girls often socialise with are not of the quality one would want for a future son in law, many of the same aged, or slightly older, men are either indifferent part time students, or not students at all, and not college graduates either, neither are they skilled tradesmen, many of which are brighter than these loosers, who seem more or less content to just drift along in low paying, burgher flipping type jobs. Engineers, chemists and others of that ilk, are perceived as "too geeky", even though they are intellectually much better matches for the women, at least for MY DAUGHTER, they are!! (My other daughter is married off already, to a lawyer, but then she's a lawyer herself, so I guess that's OK. :)

49 posted on 04/30/2003 7:16:09 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: roadcat
I remember reading that in college in the 70's! Weren't we supposed to run out of food and be killing each other off by the 90's?

IIRC, back in the '70s we were being warned by the left that we were headed into a second "ice age" because of all the freon escaping into the air...

50 posted on 04/30/2003 7:18:52 PM PDT by Tall_Texan (Destroy the Elitist Democrat Guard and the Fedayeen Clinton using the smart bombs of truth!)
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To: JNB
Hoo boy...let me gush about my college time. I did get lousy grades because of my poor attitudes and because I refused to gush about how great homosexuality was. Add to that the forced class titled "Marxist Theory: Thought and Reasoning" which was mandatory for my major(English Language Literature. When people describe universities as cesspools of liberal thought, there should be a picture of my alma mater for reference.

And sure, more women on campus sounds like a good thing, till you realize they are more like Chelsea Clinton than Jenna Bush, and far more likely to be same sex oriented.
51 posted on 04/30/2003 7:20:32 PM PDT by Sharpshot613
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To: BeAllYouCanBe
Bill Gates of the future are all being put on Ritalin

Considering the performance of MicroSloth products, maybe he was too, or should have been. They cost too, much, are too slow, and they are buggy as all get out. I don't know anyone who's not having some sort or the other of inexplicable problems with their Windows PCs, most of which don't seem to be hardware related.

52 posted on 04/30/2003 7:23:58 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: JNB
I think you are correct, with the economic trends the way they are a male can find ways to 40k (possibly working tow jobs) which doesn't leave much time for college.

And the secret is, unless you are going into a techincal profession clooege really won't help your earning power that much.

53 posted on 04/30/2003 7:23:59 PM PDT by ewing
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To: Pikachu_Dad
An equally good and perhaps more pressing question would be: Where are all the minority male voters going? The gender ratio in minority districts in Louisiana approaches a 10% gap.
54 posted on 04/30/2003 7:25:06 PM PDT by Pikachu_Dad
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To: Lando Lincoln
The problem is a complex one, but a fundamental reason behind the phenomena is that modern K-12 education is not suited to boys' needs and learning styles. Success in school is tightly correlated with the ability to sit still, be quiet, and complete work that is presented in a dull, assembly line fashion.

Another victory of feminazism.

55 posted on 04/30/2003 7:28:13 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: John123
Isn't going to college really delaying your adult life?

Depends on your major. Most in the hard sciences and engineering, male and female, work their tails off in college, and you need at least a bachelors, and preferably a MS or even PhD, to even be able to work in those fields, and by "be able to work" I mean be able to do the work, not just get the job.

56 posted on 04/30/2003 7:29:25 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: Charliehorse
It would be much better if for some people to become plumbers, carpenters, etc and go into business for themselves and become rich rather than get a useless liberal arts degree.

For some or maybe for many, yes it would be better. But a true liberal arts education has great value in itself.

57 posted on 04/30/2003 7:35:09 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: BeAllYouCanBe
it makes kids docile and mellow and that ain't always good.

I'd venture to say it's never good. Being docile and especially mellow by nature can be OK, alhough it has it's problems as does being aggressive and assertive, but artificially induced it's nothing but problems.

In a few, probably very rare cases, a kids bad behavior, or perceived bad behavior, can actually be traced to something physically amiss. But in those cases the solution is to fix the problem, say via food supplements, surgery, or whatever, not mask it over by doping the kid up for years. Anyway, plain old strong coffe, works about as well with many of the kids. Ritalin is related to speed (methamphetamine) so it's really an uppper for most people, but not for some. For them, coffee can work pretty well, without the nasty long term side effects. The first year my wife taught (or maybe the second, it was a long time ago) she had a kid like that, but it was the kids private doctor that suggested the coffee, not the school nurse or pychologist. (they didn't one of the latter). The kid brought big thermos to school every day, and if starting gettnig hyper, he'd be pulled out for a few minutes for a cup of coffee, and then he'd be fine again. Well as fine as the little guy ever got, which wasn't so very bad. (I went on a couple of their field trips, so I got to see him in action as it were.)

58 posted on 04/30/2003 7:38:49 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: Lando Lincoln
"This is a powerful issue we need to stop talking about in generalities and really dig into," says Michael L. Lomax, president of Dillard University in New Orleans. "We just can't figure out how to get more male applicants, and we're not going to turn students down on the basis on gender," Lomax says. "I don't understand what is happening in the male community that is making education seem less attractive and less compelling."

Male community? How brain dead is this? WTF is the male community? 

making education seem less attractive and less compelling."

Attractive and compelling? Bizarre words to describe education. This man is a feminized slob.

59 posted on 04/30/2003 7:42:11 PM PDT by dennisw
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