[Hodar]

"If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual [gay] sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery."

Right to incest? One equates consentual sex between adults to rape of a minor? Sorry, in the other cases, the partner is willing, and has the choice whether to participate or not. In the case of incest, the MINOR is unable to cooperate, as they are entirely dependant upon their rapist for food, shelter, clothing and necessities of life. And that's not mentioning that inconvenient little law about age of legal consent.

[sharktrager]

Incest need not be the rape of a minor. It is incest when 2 children of the same family have sex. And parental/child sex after the age of 18 remains incestuous.

[mjustice]

Incest is not rape of a minor - it's sexual relations with a person you typically could not marry. Age is not an issue.

From the dictionary:
1. Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom.

2. The statutory crime of sexual relations with such a near relative.

From NY Penal Law:
"A person is guilty of incest when he or she marries or engages in sexual intercourse or deviate sexual intercourse with a person whom he or she knows to be related to him or her, either legitimately or out of wedlock, as an ancestor, descendant, brother or sister of either the whole or the half blood, uncle, aunt, nephew or niece."

This is what Santorum meant, not raping a relative.

MJ

[RobRoy]

Inference is a scary thing in debate.

In the article or the quote, there is no mention of incest with a minor. Your response indicates the assumption on your part that incest, by definition, is sex with a close relative who is also a minor. It isn't.

Sex with a minor is separate from all the other mentioned examples and it is illegal and morally wrong whether it is incestual or not.

[Gargantua]

You're equating "incest" with "the rape of a minor."

Incest is not rape. Rape is rape. Incest is incest. You're assuming that incest refers to an adult taking sexual advantage of a child, and that is not incest.

Consensual adult brother and sister, adult cousins, 45 year-old mom and 25 year-old son, all of these are incest while none are rape, and none include a minor.

When the incest involves the rape of a minor, it is called rape.

[bondserv]

I don't believe they were arguing for the Father/Daughter or Mother/Son version of incest. They were referring to the Brother/Sister or 1st kissing Cousin version of incest.

Keyword = consensual

Striking down this law may even open the door to Father/adult Daughter or Mother/adult Son consensual sex.

More scary shifts toward Satan, beware libertarians.

[MineralMan]

"Right to incest? One equates consentual sex between adults to rape of a minor? Sorry, in the other cases, the partner is willing, and has the choice whether to participate or not. In the case of incest, the MINOR is unable to cooperate, as they are entirely dependant upon their rapist for food, shelter, clothing and necessities of life. And that's not mentioning that inconvenient little law about age of legal consent."

Incest does not always involve minors. Those are the only cases we ever hear of because incestuous relationships between adults are almost never prosecuted. In fact, I can't remember ever hearing of such a prosecution, even though the incidence is not all that low.

It's important not to use incest only when referring to sex with minor relatives. Incest runs the gamut of ages and relationships.

That, of course, does not make it right. But we just don't prosecute adults in incestuous relationships with other adults.

[AnalogReigns]

The whole legal argument, on incest, bigamy or polygamy---mentioned by Santorum, and bandied about in this article, assumes consenting adults, not minors.

Back to the issue at hand, without a moral compass--and necessarily intrinsic and dare I say religious values behind it our law is in big trouble. The gay argument applies perfectly to adult incest or even bestiality, as gross as these things are to most of us. It's slightly farther reaching regarding bigamy or polygamy but not much. Once a moral standard cannot be applied to people behind closed doors who knows what can happen.

We need to remember the pernicious application of an imagined-in-the-Constitution "right to privacy" allowed the intentional killing of 50 million+ Americans by abortion.

"If God does not exist, everything is permitted."

- the character Ivan Karamazov of Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamazov

[William McKinley]

You are missing the point. He is not equating the acts, he is saying that if you pin the rationale for the law on privacy, then the same rationale can be used for the other things.

If there is a constitutional right to privacy for consentual sex acts within the home, then it does cover those other things.

If you say there is a legal basis for outlawing incest (leave aside minors- let's just stick with another example, namely brothers and sisters of mature age), what is that legal basis?

If you can come up with a legal basis for outlawing such things, does this legal basis also have applicability for sodomy laws? Why or why not?

And go the other direction, if there is no legal basis for sodomy laws, how can there be for laws outlawing incest? Prostitution? Bigomy?

He is making a slippery slope argument. In no way does making a slippery slope argument equate things at the top of the slope with things in the abyss.

[NCLaw441]

Incest does not necessarily involve a minor. Sex with a minor is covered under statutory rape laws. Incest only concerns the family relationship between those having sex. Force is also not an issue.

[Concerned]

HODAR RESPONDED TO WILLIAM MCKINLEY: "Right to incest? One equates consentual sex between adults to rape of a minor? Sorry, in the other cases, the partner is willing, and has the choice whether to participate or not. In the case of incest, the MINOR is unable to cooperate, as they are entirely dependant upon their rapist for food, shelter, clothing and necessities of life. And that's not mentioning that inconvenient little law about age of legal consent."

According to the Random House Dictionary, incest is defined as: "sexual intercourse between persons so closely related that marriage is legally forbidden." It says nothing about the age or sex of the two parties. Therefore, see my question on #63.

[MarkL]

Right to incest? One equates consentual sex between adults to rape of a minor? Sorry, in the other cases, the partner is willing, and has the choice whether to participate or not. In the case of incest, the MINOR is unable to cooperate, as they are entirely dependant upon their rapist for food, shelter, clothing and necessities of life. And that's not mentioning that inconvenient little law about age of legal consent.Sorry, but you didn't read far enough into the article. They specifically mentioned "adult" incest, i.e. adult brother and sister, adult child and parent, etc... You know, the stuff you normally see on the Jerry Springer show. This argument has nothing to do with statutory rape or pedophillia.

Mark

[FairWitness]

Right to incest? One equates consentual sex between adults to rape of a minor?

What is a minor? Age 21 for alcohol consumption? Age 18 for voting (but it used to be 21 when I was young)? Age of consent which varies from state to state and has been as low as 10 in at least one state (in the past?)? Not advocating, please don't misunderstand, just pointing out that "age of consent" could just as easily be defined down as what is considered acceptable sexual practice.

[fifteendogs]

What about incest among consenting adults?

[kevao]

Right to incest? One equates consentual sex between adults to rape of a minor?

Not all incest involves the rape of a minor, for example, consentual incest between adults.

[glory]

Hodar--I think they are referring to consenting adults ie first cousins who are adults, brother and sisters who are adults...if you are pro consenting adults doing what they will in private, then what would be your argument against an adult man and woman who are brother and sister consenting to an intimate relationship with one another? Let's muddy it further, what about two gay brothers(adults) who consent to a relationship?

[DannyTN]

Incest is not necessarily pedophilia. Look up the definitions.

[Reactionary]

"Right to incest? One equates consentual sex between adults to rape of a minor?"

No one mentioned the ages of those involved.

[Clint N. Suhks]

One equates consentual sex between adults to rape of a minor?

Umm…I’m pretty sure they’re NOT equating pedophilic incest with homosexuality. The two consenting adults in the privacy of their own home red herring still applies here.