Liberal Methodist Leaders Call Bush to Repentance

AgapePress ^ | April 17, 2003 | Jody Brown and Bill Fancher

[Willie Green]

For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.

Those Whose Stance Falls Outside Traditional Methodism Take President to Task

(AgapePress) - Several officials of the United Methodist Church (UMC) are calling one of their fellow Methodists to repentance. While that, in and of itself, may not be unusual, it is noteworthy that the call appeared in a full-page magazine ad -- and the person called to repentance is President George W. Bush.

The April 5 edition of Christian Century magazine contains a full-page ad titled "A Prophetic Epistle from United Methodists Calling Our Brother George W. Bush to Repent." The ad, signed by several United Methodist bishops and the head of the denomination's lobby office in Washington, D.C., denounces the president for contributing to "spiritual forces of wickedness" and calls for him to "repent from domestic and foreign policies that are incompatible with the teaching and example of Christ."

Among those signing the ad are UM Bishops Joseph Sprague and Melvin Talbert, and Board of Church and Society general secretary Jim Winkler. The officials accuse President Bush of "threaten[ing] the very earth and all its inhabitants with open discussion of the use of nuclear weapons," and promoting "redemptive violence" in his policy towards the "sovereign nation of Iraq."

In addition, it claims that the president's domestic policy is "incongruent with Jesus' teaching" and falls short of the compassion of which Jesus spoke, despite Bush's claim to be a "compassionate conservative."

The ad concludes with the statement: "May our call to repentance speak to your conscience."

Mark Tooley heads the United Methodist committee of the Institute on Religion and Democracy. He says that first of all, the signers of the ad "are hardly symbols of strong, mainstream" United Methodist beliefs. He points out that Bishop Sprague denies that Jesus Christ is eternally divine, Bishop Talbert has endorsed same-sex "marriage," and Winkler is a pacifist.

Mark Tooley

According to Tooley, the UMC affirms Christ's full deity, opposes same-sex unions, and is not pacifist. "Yet these church officials claim it is President Bush who is violating his own church's teachings," he says.

"These [church] officials are effectively telling the president he is not a good Christian because his policies do not match their own left-wing beliefs," Tooley continues in a printed release.

"Bush is supposedly a bad Christian and a bad Methodist because, like most Methodists, he does not agree with these church officials in their equation of compassion with a large federal welfare state and in their opposition to a strong military defense for America."

Tooley says it is "nonsense" for the UMC officials to "equate their brand of politics with Christianity, and assume that political disagreement is a sign of spiritual apostasy."

Anti-War Academics
Religious leaders are not the only anti-war faction in the news these days. It can also be found in the world of academia.

Anti-war demonstrators are composed primarily of college-age students, both in America and in Europe. Paul Weyrich of the Free Congress Foundation says that is because anti-American feelings permeate the world of academia -- and always will.

"The academics identify with academics abroad," Weyrich says, "and of course, the academic community [abroad] is very anti-American and believes that George Bush is a greater problem than Saddam Hussein or anybody else you can name."

Weyrich says that anti-American attitude is transferred to the students on a daily basis. "They believe that they need to expose the student community to the anti-American point of view; hence, the kind of people that they are really featuring in their various programs."

Weyrich says that is why students are on the front line of various types of anti-American demonstrations.

[deziner]

The Southern Baptist Convention has a website with a church locator - just enter your zip code. Southern Baptist churches are quite conservative. It's what I go to.

[deziner]

I'm southern baptist, too and we did the same thing - sang the national anthem during the war. It's great.

[2nd Amendment]

Liberal Methodists don't believe in the inerrancy of scripture, accept homosexuality, ordain women,and try to feminize God. What do you expect from these lost liberals?

[deziner]

A methodist minister here in our town (a woman one at that) doesn't believe in hell. I guess she figures everyone gets to go to heaven. Ain't that sweet?

[aruanan]

The call themselves the Covenant churches within the PCUSA and publish their own newspaper, The Presbyterian Layman, to keep the grassroots aware of the efforts to bring the denomination back to its moorings.

This was one of the distinctive features of the Free Methodist Church when it started back in the 1860s. The control was to be by the laity. There were to be lay pastors along with ordained pastors in the local churches. The pastors were appointed by the conference to their pastorate but the local church society voted on their return. The church meetings are conducted according to Roberts Rules of Order. Delegates are elected by the local society to represent it at the regional and national conference level. Motions that are binding on the national church level are presented at general conference and voted on. There are conference superintendents at the conference level and bishops at the national level. The conference superintendent is to help manage church affairs at the conference level. People are increasingly of the opinion of "Who needs bishops anyway?" since some of them appear to have no familiarity with the Free Methodist Book of Discipline (which can be seen under "resources" at www.freemethodistchurch.org)--either that or they just don't believe that it is normative for members of the Free Methodist Church, especially when they talk about something being "in keeping with the spirit of the B of D" when it directly and unambiguously contradicts the letter.

At the national level there is a Board of Administration which used to have over 40 members from the various conferences. This number has been whittled away at the same time the Board of Bishops has been talking about vastly increasing the number of bishops (well over 100% increase). There are many motions for the next general conference dealing with what people believe to be an overreaching on the part of the bishops and the North American church headquarters (the world FM church is much larger than the North American church and is found throughout the world: Japan, Taiwan (underground in the PRC), Cambodia, Philippines, throughout Africa, Europe, some Eastern European countries, Mexico, and South America (andCanada)). Quite a few people think there is something wrong when the headquarters of a church complains that certain conferences are sending "too much money" to foreign missions and saying that they ought to send it to them at headquarters to decide what to do with it. Never mind that these local conferences are going over and beyond all their national obligations. Headquarters may soon find itself without several of the largest conferences which also happen to be those which hew closely to the founding principles of the church.

[right way right]

As far as I am concerned this thread ended at your reply.

Its all in the book of truth that was written by God through the Holy Spirit.

[Sally II]

I've been to a few Methodist churches. They're a real mix. The more conservative churches had very poor attendance. The more liberal ones had large attendance, and had a disturbing New Agey edge. Not a church goer myself. Don't really believe in religious systems.

[aruanan]

Every true Christian finds others of like-spirit to fellowship with. In fact, some of the deepest fellowship I've experienced has been outside the confines of the edifice known as the local church.

This is why the house meeting was the center of Methodism before it ever became a formal church. The house meetings are still an important part of fellowship.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

The National Council of Churches does, indeed, have a history of supporting socialist movements.

Thank you. This issue has been a passion of mine and I've researched it rather thoroughly. These churches are dying, and rightfully so.

[Matchett-PI]

You wrote: "I've never heard of the ... Vineyard Church.
... And don't get me started on the televangelists, who are milking a wonderful scam."

The religion racket (like Marxist DemocRATS) couldn't laugh all the way to the bank without their useful idiots.

Regarding the "Vinyard Churches", do a google search on "holy laughter", just for starters.

Here's a letter I wrote to Rush in 1997:

October 1997

Hi Rush,

I love you. But you are wrong.

You have chosen to pick the winning football teams by the "environmentalist wacko method".

There is a more surefire method.

James Ryle, the director of The Promise Keepers movement has a better way of picking the winners than you do.

In his book, "Hippo In The Garden", Ryle tells us that he receives visions from the Almighty through a female buffalo by the name of "Ralphie".

The Almighty tells him who will win by having Ryle look at Ralphie's horns as an *omen*.

Bill McCartney started the Promise Keepers organization after hearing his pastor, James Ryle, tell him about seeing an energy field encircling the University of Colorado Buffaloes football team.

Ryle claims to be a modern day seer in the Vinyard churches and says he not only functions as a pastor, but also "helps provide biblical direction for men through Promise Keepers."

In fact, the signs and wonders recounted by Ryle are at times so incredible that even the apostle John's visions on the Isle of Patmos seem pale by comparison.

He says that on one occasion God gave him a message through a pig and a billboard. He says that God told him, "I am speaking to My people in *billboards' all the time, but they are so distracted by the little pigs that they seldom notice what I am saying."

So you see, Rush, you need to be consulting the expert when making your football predictions. Maybe you could have him call in and give you the omen from Ralphie's horn before the next big game. :)

Keep up the good work!!!!

[snooter55]

Challenge accepted ......... John Hagee !
Next.....
Snooter ;o)

[kidkosmic1]

"I challenge anybody to find a true man of God in any church today."

This man of God, Ruffin Snow, would knock your socks off:

http://www.tcbc.org/meetourstaff.htm#Ruffin%20Snow

He loves Jesus and you know know it real quick. Months later you'd still know it.

[Krodg]

I am a Southern Baptist and I love my church. I wasn't ridiculing my church, just enjoying the freedom to point out that none of us are perfect. My church would probably laugh with me.

I spent many years in Methodist and Presbyterian churches, swearing I would never be a Baptst....and here I am now, a very happy born-again believer in Jesus Christ. I'm not slamming those churches, just saying if you open your heart to Christ, He will lead you where He wants you to be.

There are true Christians in every church but sometimes they find themselves surrounded by Pharisees or those who would 'tickle their ears' and they should beware.

[txzman]

As though liberal Methodist leaders have any clue at all as to what constitutes repentance.

No Kidding! Give me a break!! I laughed out loud when I read the darn headline.

[Paulus Invictus]

At least you will know you are among conservatives, for the most part. The Church does not claim to be perfect either.

As for fundamentalist beliefs: they are strong for family, America, the military, and the Constitution. They have no paid clergy, are anti-abortion, anti-drugs, alcohol and tobacco. They strongly advocate daily Scripture reading, prepardness for emergencies and daily prayer. They meet often and help each other and many others with un-reported humanitarian assistance. Oh, and before some Freeper denies they are Christian (and they will), they are strong believers in and followers of Christ.

[TheRightGuy]

But it's not only the United Methodists...there are cells of left wing self styled Christians in most major denominations.

My denomination, Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), has more than enough lefties in high places, and enough aging hippies in my local congregation to make life miserable. Recently, several of us spoke to subject, and it's created quite a little riff :^)

[Southack]

"Anyone know a good rightwing church? I'm getting pretty tired of hearing from all the hypocritical, commie-loving, Bush-bashing ones."

Try the Southern Baptists.

[crz]

Any Church, that acknowledges that Christ is the son of God and is from God is a church of the faith. I happen to like the LDS. I got several cousins who are Mormons. They remind me of the small country churches of my youth where everyone would get together to help each other. Its a sad time we live in. The socialist have ruined this generation and made it into the "ME" generation. The 1960s were the low point of this nation. Bill Clinton was a product of the 60s.

[Techster]

These people DO NOT speak for the General Conference of the United Methodist Church. They represent a vocal minority of one committee that many of us believe is on the far left fringe. The Book of Discipline presents the doctrine from the church as a whole. It does NOT support homosexual practice, but considers all persons as children of God and worthy of his love.

[k2blader]

The ad, signed by several United Methodist bishops and the head of the denomination's lobby office in Washington, D.C., denounces the president for contributing to "spiritual forces of wickedness" and calls for him to "repent from domestic and foreign policies that are incompatible with the teaching and example of Christ."

These UMC folks should take their own advice.