Pope's ruling bars Blair from taking Communion with family

The London Times ^ | April 17, 2003 | Richard Owen in Rome and Tom Baldwin

[Willie Green]

For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.

ANY hope that Tony Blair had of enjoying a happy, Catholic Easter with his family will be crushed today by the Pope.

John Paul II is issuing a new encyclical that The Times has learnt will explicitly forbid Protestants like the Prime Minister taking Communion with Catholics such as Cherie Blair and their children.

The 83-year-old Pope has chosen Holy Week to stamp on what he sees as dangerously “liberal” interpretations of the Roman Catholic doctrine that only those “in full communion with Rome” can take part in the Eucharist.

Mr Blair, who remains a committed, if ecumenical, member of the Church of England, regularly attends Catholic Mass with his family. He also used to take Communion with them at the St Joan of Arc church in Islington.

But in 1996, he received a letter from Cardinal Basil Hume asking him to desist. In his reply, Mr Blair did not conceal his dismay at such theological conservatism. Saying that he merely wished to worship with his family but had not realised his behaviour was causing offence, he promised he would not do so again. The letter added: “I wonder what Jesus would have made of it?”

Since then Mr Blair, who admits he is strongly drawn to Catholicism, has more than once explored the limits of this doctrine. Britain has never had a Catholic prime minister and in 1998 he had to deny reports he had converted after being spotted going to Westminster Cathedral for Mass unaccompanied by his family. Suggestions that he had received the Eucharist on this occasion were never confirmed.

There have also been rumours that when Mr Blair is on holiday abroad he has taken Communion with his family.

The Pope´s fourteenth encyclical slams the door on the many Catholics and Protestants who currently take Communion together and represents a setback for Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, who is a firm advocate of ecumenism. When Mr Blair visited the Pope at the Vatican last month, he may have got a hint of what was to come. While his family went to take Communion with the Pope, the Prime Minister only received a blessing. The Pope also made it clear that he disagreed with Mr Blair about war in Iraq.

[lugsoul]

There is a difference between "presence" at the Eucharist and physical transformation.

[Chemist_Geek]

Some people have a juvenile need to break the rules of the Mother Church they have rejected.

A lot of people here have a juvenile need to act and talk against all sorts of rules. It's sad that order, within the Church and within society, is held in such low regard.

[xp38]

I am Protestant and have attended Roman Catholic services numerous times over the years (mostly in the accompaniment of another Catholic) and have always known this and respected it. I am complete agreement with you on this issue and never assumed any non Catholic would ever breach this unless out of ignorance. In closing I'd like to wish you all the best and a Happy Easter.

[Roughneck]

The POPE is a hypocrite.

The POPE is, in my opinion, not a man of God anymore. If thats "bashing the POPE" - TOO BAD. We bash celebrities in here, we bash newscasters, we bash journalists, and leaders of free countries, I've heard name-calling that makes even ME blush, yet the POPE can not be critisized?

(Note, I've been "warned" to go easy on the POPE I was TOLD not to mis-spell his HOLY NAME or that is considered bashing.)

The POPE is no exception. He IS NOT holier than Tony Blair, he could not lick tony blairs shoes.

I say down with the POPE.

[Salvation]

The Anglican Church has already split with the Episcopal Church. They no longer accept the priestesses.

They will be the first ones to rejoing the Roman Church in my opinion.

[Roughneck]

To Willie Green.

Sorry. My last post should have been to "All"

[ellery]

Find a true Bible believing church that gives communion to all who are have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, without discrimination.

But couldn't limiting communion to those who have been born again also be considered discrimination?

[SoothingDave]

Your reply highlights the absurdity of the boundary.

I don't see where there is any absrudity.

One who has faith that a physical change - which cannot be discerned in a physical way - has in fact taken place is a believer . One who believes that he is spiritually partaking of the Body and Blood of Christ, but not necessarily an invisible, odorless, tasteless transubstantiation of physical matter, is not a believer.

Yes, that is how the belief in my Church is defined. And it is exactly the opposite in most Protestant Churches. If I were to insist that the Eucharist is a physical change, I would be told that that is wrong.

what is so difficult to understand about people having different views and recognizing this? We dont' pretend that we all agree on thei very important subject. Only thoise who agree with us are invited.

If I choose to believe Jesus was not God, was only a man, and His Resurrection is nto true, it was only spiritual, am I invited to commune with you?

As far as I know, the only question you haven't now answered is the cannibalism question.

Only because it is absurd. Christ's Body is made present in the appearance of Bread and Wine precisely because the idea of gnawing on human flesh is repulsive. So while it is substantially the Body of Christ it's apearances are not so.

SD

[Campion]

My dearly departed mother said the rosary each day and attended mass each morning and lived a good life. She never got to meet and greet the Pope like Castro, Clinton and Aziz. Makes me wonder.

Funny, I've been a loyal tax-paying American citizen all my life, I even voted for George Bush for President, and yet Vladimir-stinking-Putin gets invited to Crawford, TX for a barbecue with the CinC while I sit at home! What gives?!?!

Seriously, your mother, according to your testimony, is quite possibly in the presence of God right now, which beats meeting the Pope in person all hollow -- as the Pope himself would be the first to attest.

[Salvation]

The rectory is the priest's house on a church campus.

It is usually not attached to the actual church.

We have breakfasts and sales all the time in our parish hall. what is wrong with that? Churches need to raise money!

Besides, the story of Christ throwing out the money changers and merchants had more to do with WHY they were there than what they were offering.

[lugsoul]

I agree - and I have been present at certain Baptist ceremonies where a similar exclusion is made, i.e. that one who is not "born again" as that phrase is defined by that segment of the Church may not take the sacrament. I feel exactly the same way about that practice.

[A2J]

As much as I admire the pope's stand on abortion, he's wrong on this one.

[SavageRepublican]

On a slightly different note, I read a story on this encyclical in the Columbia MO Tribune (my local paper) that is attributed to the Associated Press. I don't know if they're misquoting, but has anyone seen anything about Catholics not being allowed to take Communion in a non-Catholic church???

Here's the excerpt:

John Paul also warned Catholics against receiving Communion in non-Catholic churches, an admonition that is likely to stir up protests in the United States and other countries where interfaith services are a fundamental part of efforts to bring Christians closer together.

Link to full story

Again, this may be a misquote, but does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[missnry]

One of the most important prayers that Jesus prayed was for His church to be "One" (not divided).
The scripture referenced in 1 Corinthians 11:27-29 was not there to prevent people from participating in "communion" or the "eucharist" but... it was there for them to quit acting like a bunch of godless fools in their selfishness! They were being admonished to learn from Christ's example; the greatest among them would be the one who knew how to serve rather than to be served.
The lesson that we can all learn from the Corinthians is:
When you are not following Christ's example:
You got a problem! FIX IT! Don't wait!
When you've done that, THEN freely participate in the communion with your brethren!
And it doesn't matter what flavor of Christianity you are in it applies to all.

[Salvation]

**The biggest difference - and a significant one - is that you are free to fully worship in my Church.**

And I repeat -- you can be there to worship in the Catholic Church, thus supporting your wife and daughter. I think you will attend. And I doubt that anyone will ostracize you. Please let me know!

[Iowegian]

But couldn't limiting communion to those who have been born again also be considered discrimination?

Yes, but it discrimates on the proper basis and allows the individual's conscience to be the guide rather than some "holy person" that knows little or nothing about you to make a judgement based on arbitrary rules. Communion should be only for Christians, but the question is: who decides and on what basis?

[Salvation]

What don't you get?

[AnalogReigns]

Down boy! Because the Pope opposed the war in Iraq (like the great majority of Europeans...soaked as they are in the very liberal, anti-American European media...) that makes him ungodly? Dead wrong yes, (imho) but hardly ungodly or hypocritical. The Pope, for the sake of hoped for repentence, will see all kinds of nasty brutal dictator types...(as did the Apostle Paul) that doesn't mean he blesses their evil, or forgives them of things they really aren't repentent of.

I'm NOT a Roman Catholic either, I just don't like to see unfair criticism. Religious leaders should avoid speaking directly to policy, unless absolutely necessary, as people tend to get very upset when they disagree on issues--which relative to eternal matters of God's kingdom, are not that important.

[lugsoul]

Your last comments reek of absurdity - you can't see it because you are buried in it.

Your question poses an extreme scenario which does not fit the debate - your hypothetical involves a non-Christian, by definition. But what you are telling all is that a detail of interpretation defines whether or not one is in the faith. Before I would take such a rigid position, I would make damn sure I had done everything possible to determine the accuracy of that interpretation - not just take Rome's word for it. What does the passage upon which you rely say in Greek? Hebrew?

Again - the cannibalism question isn't what is absurd. The response demonstrates that. You have just told us all that it is okay to eat flesh as long as it is disguised as bread. Is that really what you believe the Bible teaches us?

[Campion]

Compare the doctrine of a Church with the Bible and the truth will be revealed.

This particular Catholic doctrine comes straight out of 1 Corinthians 11:23-30.