Pope's ruling bars Blair from taking Communion with family

The London Times ^ | April 17, 2003 | Richard Owen in Rome and Tom Baldwin

[Willie Green]

For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.

ANY hope that Tony Blair had of enjoying a happy, Catholic Easter with his family will be crushed today by the Pope.

John Paul II is issuing a new encyclical that The Times has learnt will explicitly forbid Protestants like the Prime Minister taking Communion with Catholics such as Cherie Blair and their children.

The 83-year-old Pope has chosen Holy Week to stamp on what he sees as dangerously “liberal” interpretations of the Roman Catholic doctrine that only those “in full communion with Rome” can take part in the Eucharist.

Mr Blair, who remains a committed, if ecumenical, member of the Church of England, regularly attends Catholic Mass with his family. He also used to take Communion with them at the St Joan of Arc church in Islington.

But in 1996, he received a letter from Cardinal Basil Hume asking him to desist. In his reply, Mr Blair did not conceal his dismay at such theological conservatism. Saying that he merely wished to worship with his family but had not realised his behaviour was causing offence, he promised he would not do so again. The letter added: “I wonder what Jesus would have made of it?”

Since then Mr Blair, who admits he is strongly drawn to Catholicism, has more than once explored the limits of this doctrine. Britain has never had a Catholic prime minister and in 1998 he had to deny reports he had converted after being spotted going to Westminster Cathedral for Mass unaccompanied by his family. Suggestions that he had received the Eucharist on this occasion were never confirmed.

There have also been rumours that when Mr Blair is on holiday abroad he has taken Communion with his family.

The Pope´s fourteenth encyclical slams the door on the many Catholics and Protestants who currently take Communion together and represents a setback for Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, who is a firm advocate of ecumenism. When Mr Blair visited the Pope at the Vatican last month, he may have got a hint of what was to come. While his family went to take Communion with the Pope, the Prime Minister only received a blessing. The Pope also made it clear that he disagreed with Mr Blair about war in Iraq.

[Iowegian]

You are quite right. Find a true Bible believing church that gives communion to all who are have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, without discrimination.

[surelyclintonsbaddream]

Actually, I have been to several Catholic wedding, funerals and not being allowed to take communion seems as the host is not being gracious. Like inviting people to your house but telling certain one's they are not allowed to partake. It makes the nonCatholic very uncomfortable, which in a Christian church (ANY Christian church) I feel is unacceptable. We are to be all in one body, united with Christ.
I respect your religion, but it just seems to isolate. We have communion and ask that all that are in good standing with Christ partake. I just feel that it is better. There are times I don't partake but it is my decision.

We have gone to weddings where the groom was not allowed to partake and it just seems wrong to have a couple ununited before the ceremony is even over.

I have been to Catholic services where I as a Christian was not allowed to partake but Catholic's that I knew personally not to be Christians partake. I guess my problem with the Catholic church is SOME not All feel you automatically have a place in heaven simply because you are a Catholic. I think alot of Catholics (and others) are going to be surprised when Jesus says "I do not know you" that is a scary thought.

[Salvation]

**I am a Protestant. My wife is Catholic. We had planned to take our daughter to her first Easter mass this weekend. If I can't participate, I am not going to sanction such a divisive and exclusionary practice by going to get my "blessing." The requirement of belief in transsubstantiation is man-made law, and the Church does itself a disservice by turning away believers based upon it.**

You can participate in the way you mentioned by concentrating on the postive aspects of your daughters's first Easter. Yes, it will be different for you, but you can show your love and support for your wife and daughter by attending. God bless you!

I'm sure our beliefs are much more alike than different!

[SoothingDave]

And my question to you - since the heart of the issue is the physical presence of the Body and Blood of Christ - is how this physical presence is discerned, as opposed to the physical presence of unleavened bread and wine. What does it look like? What does it taste like? What does it smell like? What does it feel like? Those of us who aren't Catholic obviously don't know these answers, and it would be very instructive for us to know them in reflecting on this issue.

It is discerned through observation and through faith. Period.

One needs to understand that the outward appearances (taste, smell, look, feel, etc.) do not change. The presence is discerned by the eyes of faith only. One observes the priest doing what Christ commanded us to do. The priest does the same thing Christ did when He said "this is my Body."

We believe it.

We have faith in the Lord to be faithful to his promise and we have faith in His Church to ordain priests and to provide the proper form and matter for the sacrament to happen.

If you take a host (bread wafer) and show it to me, unless I have seen it become consecrated during a Mass, I can not physically detect whether it is Bread or Body.

Only if I see it happen, or if I trust the Church can I discern the difference.

SD

[lugsoul]

The biggest difference - and a significant one - is that you are free to fully worship in my Church.

[Mr. Lucky]

Belief in the true presence of our Savior at the Eucharist is not limited to Roman Catholics. But, to answer your question, the body and blood of our Savior present at the Eucharist have the appearance of bread and wine.

[Salvation]

**Return to Roman jurisdiction. Re-affirm the Catholic faith and denounce the articles that differentiated the Anglicans from the Catholics.

And since they've generally cocked-up the ordination process, all of the priests woudl need to be at least conditionally ordained. This would exclude women, of course.**

Excellent answer. Some of the Anglican (High Episcopal) have already denounced the preistess endorsements and are in dialogue with Rome about further differences. I think we will see them be the first to rejoin the Roman Catholic Church.

[ellery]

Sigh. I don't get it.

[oldironsides]

Mr. T. Aziz met with the Pope. My dearly departed mother
said the rosary each day and attended mass each morning and lived a good life.
She never got to meet and greet the Pope like Castro, Clinton and Aziz. Makes me wonder.

[SoothingDave]

It makes the nonCatholic very uncomfortable, which in a Christian church (ANY Christian church) I feel is unacceptable.

We take our faith seriously. The entire faith, not just a few fragmentary fundamentals. You are, of course, welcome to join us at the table. You will merely have to affirm the entire faith with us first.

We are to be all in one body, united with Christ.

Yes, of course. And we won't pretend that we don't have differences. We pray for true unity among Christians, unity in the faith. Not a pretend unity among the most watered down common ground.

I have been to Catholic services where I as a Christian was not allowed to partake but Catholic's that I knew personally not to be Christians partake.

Wow! You personally know people's relationships with Christ. That's amazing.

It's coincidental, I'm sure, that those most "assured" of their own salvation are also the most judgmental of others.

SD

[Salvation]

**Acknowledge the primacy of the Bishop of Rome, plus a few other minor doctrinal matters.**

Also an excellent answer. See my note above to Soothing Dave.

[T Minus Four]

Yes, I don't understand why this is seen as such a burning issue and an example of "denying Christ" or "exclusion". You must be a Roman Catholic in full compliance with all the requirements to receive communion. I am divorced and remarried so I am ineligible, but I attend mass and just sit quietly and pray during communion. I don't feel like I can have a "less than fully Catholic Easter" because of this. If you want communion, meet the requirements and make the right choices in your life. Meanwhile, you are very welcome to attend mass and worship God in a Catholic Church.

[AnalogReigns]

I'm not aware of many doctrinal differeneces between the Church of England and Rome so, except for how it fits with British history, it shouldn't really be too great a leap.

It's a common misconception of non-Anglican Protestants (particularly in America, I'm afraid) to not be aware of the MANY differences between firmly Protestant traditional Anglican/Episcopalean beliefs and Roman Catholic beliefs. It stems from, I think, the fact that Anglican worship is very "high church" or Catholic APPEARING, yet as we all know, appearances can be decieving.

Besides not acknowledging the Pope, traditional Anglicans (not the liberals...they believe all kinds of strange stuff) accept the the "solas" of Protestantism, that is "sola fide, sola gracia, solo scriptura, solus Christus, sola Deo gloria" (only through faith, only by grace, scripture alone, Christ alone, all for God's glory alone). Henry the VIII may have liked Roman doctrine, (except on divorce...) but those who came after did not--the very UN-Roman Catholic "Westminister Confession" of Presbyterianism was formulated by Puritan Anglicans, who also made the Church of England unquestionably very traditionally Protestant (not quite Presbyterian though...) in its core beliefs.

The confusion is that most modern Protestants aren't used to the high-church/liturgical style of worship found in Anglican churches, and since that part does resemble Roman Catholic worship, we assume their beliefs are also similar...when in fact they are not.Also from the very beginning the Church of England, being a national church, had a "big tent" philosophy--having people that were practically Roman Catholic in beliefs (like Henry) to those who could have easily been Lutheran or Presbyterian. (I suspect Blair is like England's first Protestant monarch. Let's hope his religious descendents are more like Elizabeth I, and not like bloody Mary...)

Function does not always follow form.

[ex-snook]

"I think alot of Catholics (and others) are going to be surprised when Jesus says "I do not know you" that is a scary thought."

Not likely, Jesus will remember having been received into our earthly bodies many times. Catholics have a very personal relationship with Jesus.

[SoothingDave]

Mr. T. Aziz met with the Pope. My dearly departed mother said the rosary each day and attended mass each morning and lived a good life. She never got to meet and greet the Pope like Castro, Clinton and Aziz. Makes me wonder.

What country was your mother secretary of state of?

SD

[crz]

Interesting. Anyone who believes that Christ is the son of God and is from God must not be denied by any church preaching the gospel. Those accepting this are actually the church, being that they have the spirit within them being the body of Christ. If the believers are of the body of Christ and are denied, than are'nt those who do these things denying Christ? (The Messiah)

[lugsoul]

Your reply highlights the absurdity of the boundary.

One who has faith that a physical change - which cannot be discerned in a physical way - has in fact taken place is a believer . One who believes that he is spiritually partaking of the Body and Blood of Christ, but not necessarily an invisible, odorless, tasteless transubstantiation of physical matter, is not a believer.

As far as I know, the only question you haven't now answered is the cannibalism question. But I know that's a hard one.

[SoothingDave]

We should note that there is an "Anglican Use" rite within the Latin Church that greases the skids for any Anglican communities that wish to return home. They can continue to use their familiar Rite with just a few modifications.

SD

[Salvation]

** (I'd say about ten percent of the members where I attend are former Roman Catholics)**

These people are still Catholics and are invited to return at any time.

We are sponsoring our third class entitled "Catholics Can Come Home Again" guidebook, by Carried Kemp.

In the two classes we have conducted so far we had nearly 25 former Catholics attending and about 20 of those come back to the Catholic Church. It's a wonderful program. Tell your friends to look for it in their area!

[ColdSteelTalon]

Why am I not suprised. Compare the doctrine of a Church with the Bible and the truth will be revealed.