Officer exonerated in theater gun incident

WTNH ^ | 4/17/2003 | AP

[always vigilant]

(Hartford-AP Apr. 17, 2003 11:35 AM)_ An off-duty state Capitol police officer has been exonerated in a gun incident at the Bushnell Center.

An investigation began in February after Officer Paul Warren's personal gun went off accidentally inside the crowded theater.

The incident occurred during intermission of "The Tale of the Allergist's Wife" starring Valerie Harper.

The gun, a .380-caliber Browning automatic handgun was in his shoulder holster when it went off as he and his wife were returning to their seats at the end of intermission.

Both Hartford police and state Capitol police could not determine why the gun went off and found no negligence on Warren's part.

They also determined he did not violate any laws or department policy.

[Hodar]

I wonder if what we have is merely a generational difference in training?

It could be, but I doubt it. I think I would rather error on the side of general safety. The time it takes to arm an automatic is insignificant, there just aren't the fun old fast-draw duels like there were in the old days. However, we all know that an armed gun will occassionally discharge when dropped, bumped or when going about life (like in a theater). There is no need for anyone to carry a pistol with a chambered round. It's like running with scissors, it's begging for an 'accident'.

One can make a strong case for NOT carrying a weapon with a chambered a round (accidental discharge being primary, time savings being near zero). I have talked with several cops, and I have never heard one say "I drew my gun and immediately began to fire". If you feel you are in danger, draw your gun and arm it. In the case of Houston, TX TWO officers had a suspect unarm them, and shoot a total of 4 officers just about a month ago. If the suspect had to arm the pistol, there is at least a 50% chance that 1 of the 3 wounded officers could have shot him. Therefore, I cannot make an arguement to always carry a pistol with round chambered. It's an accident just waiting to happen.

[Squantos]

Seems you found someone that bluffs with both his firearm and his knowledge of it's use ......:o)

Stay Safe !

[Eaker]

;>)

You WILL be at our shoot!!! I gave you 30 days notice!

I want my "School Sticker" too!!!

[Squantos]

If we'd stayed in Citrus mode I'd be the first to tell ya I'll be there !.............Banana Mode changes the work schedule a bit. But I ain't giving up hope yet.........

Had my local gunrunner order me a new S&W 329PD .44 magnum this afternoon from Lew Horton. He said the jobber said "recoil" about a hunnerd times during the 3 minute conversation......:o)

Wait time from S&W is about a month alledgedly. I'll drag it along (if all goes as planned) with the .500 linebaugh and ya'll can tell me if the recoil is "too godawful"...............:o) Medium T-Shirt and University decals are being ordered ! Ya'll are in for a few. Not to worry.....yet !!

Stay Safe !

[TexasCowboy]

I'm thinking very seriously about investing in a Sharp's 45.70.
You never can tell when we might be attacked by buffalo!
I sure hope you can make it!

[Shooter 2.5]

Since I was pinged to this thread, I might as well bore everyone with my two cents.

The cop should have been charged if there was nothing mechanically wrong with the pistol.

On the subject of whether it's better to have a chambered or unchambered weapon, I think it should be up to the person who owns the gun. I noticed that Detonics made quite a living for a while for people who didn't like the hammer back. That's the way it goes. Should training change because some officer was bored during a play. No.

There is all sorts of training to be had out there. Some instructors do it one way and others do it another. I was trained by a guy who is reputed to be world renowned. He keeps his 1911 in condition one. If I didn't agree with the way I was trained and felt unsafe with a chambered round I wouldn't care if God himself called me an expert, I wouldn't do it.

There is a reason why experts tell beginners to buy a revolver as their first choice. There are a lot of officers who might be more comfortable with the original point and click. This officer may be one of those.

[Squantos]

I promise I will try !.......As to the 45-70 It is one of my favorites. I have a old High Wall Winchester (original) and one of the new Rugar Stainless Number 1's in 45-70 that I compete and hunt with respectively. I like em !

BTW I have a herd of Buffalo about two miles from me.......between Panhandle and Claude Texas. About 100 head I believe.......:o) Can't tell ya what a tag cost's as they are Beefalo per se.

Stay Safe

[supercat]

Not really. Drawing from a shoulder holster, I can chamber a round in that Browning in the same time I can bring it into a position where I can fire it with any accuracy. It's a smooth, one-step action. It does require two hands, of course, but would not slow me down a bit.

Does your pistol hand-cycle with 100% reliability, especially when you're in a hurry? If you really need your gun and it jams before you get off even one shot, you're dead.

[supercat]

The Glock 26 I carried kind of made me nervous as the safety was on the trigger.

If you pull the trigger, it goes bang. If you don't pull the trigger it doesn't go bang. If you don't want it to go bang, don't pull the trigger.

The Glock, actually, is an excellent cross between single and double action. When the gun is just sitting there, it's ready for a double-action shot. If you fire but release the trigger only about 1/8", it will be ready for a single-action shot with a trigger break exactly like the first double-action shot. If you release the trigger fully, the next shot will be double-action.

I'd wonder if anyone could do the same thing in a pistol with a bobbed hammer (avoiding the Glock patent).

[supercat]

A basic rule of handgun safety is that there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge". The correct term is "negligent discharge".

I wouldn't go quite that far. I would say that 999 out of 1000 unintentional shootings are the result of negligence, but things like slamfires can occur even to prudent people. The test of prudence is where the round goes after it's accidentally fired.

There was one case I read about where someone was killed by an accidental discharge that I wouldn't necessarily attribute to negligence: the shooter loaded a full clip (10 round stripper) into his SKS rifle and dropped the bolt; the rifle proceeded to slamfire all ten rounds in sequence. Since the shooter was unprepared for the recoil, he lost control of the rifle and was shot thereby.

To be sure, it's possible that the failure was caused by negligent maintenance on the SKS, but such failures can occur even to concientious shooters. On the other hand, such incidents are sufficiently rare as to make up a tiny portion of the unintentional shootings that occur.

[dansangel]

I can always rely on you for a sensible, level-headed answer. Thank-you.

[Stat-boy]

I respectfully disagree. It’s impossible for a modern semi-auto handgun to fire without a trigger pull. In fact, try the following experiment: (A) (1) take a modern semi-auto handgun; (2) empty it; (3) confirm; (4) point downrange; (5) place a pencil in the barrel and cock it; and (6) pull the trigger. The pencil will shoot out of the gun because the firing pin will strike the eraser. (B) Now repeat steps (1) through (5), but instead of pulling the trigger strike the trigger with another pencil so that it is depressed but not held down (or have a friend do the same). What you will see is that the hammer will be released, and the hammer will strike the firing pen, but the firing pin will not be free to move because of an internal safety that most people do not know exists. The pencil will not move!

I just described a standard demonstration performed by firearms experts for a jury in connection with a trial involving firing of a handgun. The defense will often allege that the gun went off accidentally; and the prosecution must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the only reason the gun fired was that the trigger was pulled by a finger.

[Centurion2000]

. It takes less than 2 seconds to transform this club to a deadly weapon.

And in less than 2 seconds a bad guy can be on you with a knife or grappling from 22 feet away.

Unless you've actually taken courses on concealed carry please stop lecturing.

[TexasCowboy]

I sure wish you and .45 Man could come to our shoot in New Braunfels, but I guess it would be a fur piece to have to drive.
Maybe someday I can get up in your neck of the woods.
I'll send you some pics!

{{{HUGS!}}}

[dansangel]

Pics are welcome any time! So's visiting. (((((((HUGS)))))) back at ya.

[MineralMan]

"Does your pistol hand-cycle with 100% reliability, especially when you're in a hurry? If you really need your gun and it jams before you get off even one shot, you're dead."

If it did not, I would not have such a weapon. I would have it repaired or replace it. I've never had a jam of any kind.

[Freedom2specul8]

SO that type doesn't have to be cocked to fire correct?

[harpseal]

In the state of Connecticut for a civilian any accidental discharge of a firearm will at minimum bring revocation of one's pistol permit. If the police labratory could not find a reason a browning .380 pistol discharged then I would suggest they have ruled out mechanical malfunction. Clearly they also must know from the recovered shell casing if the primer had been impacted from a firing pin. Now given all the above it is clearly the officer's fault and he should be facing the same charges that any civilian would face.

[harpseal]

I disagree that all accidental discharges are negligent discharges. I haev had at least three accidental discharges while at a shooting range. All were withe firearm pointed downrange and all were the result of firearms having developed mechanical problems. No harm was done and the firearms went to a gunsmith for repair.

[supercat]

If it did not, I would not have such a weapon. I would have it repaired or replace it. I've never had a jam of any kind.

Every pistol I've seen will malfunction if hand-cycled incorrectly (e.g. short-cycled). Some are more finicky than others when hand-cycling, but all can malfunction.

Are you so adept at cycling your weapon during the draw that your hand will never slip or otherwise have any hint of fumbling, even under a stress condition?