[Lady Eileen]

Hope that Freepers on both sides of the issue can find time to participate.

[Grand Old Partisan]

Most people are too patriotic these days to care about a book which trashes the savior of our nation while venenrating southern Democrats who, in their treasonous attempt to preserve slavery, killed 360,000 U. S. troops.

[conservativeinbflo.]

DiLorenzo... who has the time to deal with this jerk? He insists Abraham Lincoln was a seething racist, and basically, a horrible person. I suggest people either boycott the lecture, or attend with a bag of rotten produce. Read Quackenbush if you want decent Lincoln history.

[VoodooEconomics]

Anybody notice how calls for reparations and 'new revelations' about Abe Lincoln seem to have a strong correlation? I will keep an open mind - but what was the most prominent end result of the US civil war? The end of Slavery - right?

[sheltonmac]

*ping*

[Valin]

The conventional wisdom in America is that Abraham Lincoln was a great emancipator who preserved American liberties. In recent years, new research has portrayed a less-flattering Lincoln that often behaved as a self-seeking politician who catered to special interest groups.

So which is the real Lincoln?


Both

[jimt]

If Walt shows up to berate you and/or the author, all you need to know to cut through his erudite arguments is that he voted for Klinton twice. That says it all.

[WhiskeyPapa]

DiLorenzo's work is filled with laughably inaccurate data.

Walt

[LurkedLongEnough]

ping

[SCDogPapa]

Thanks for your post. The following is why they don't like DiLorenzo. He tells it like it was.

Before they jump on me, these are not DiLorenzo's words. They are not MY words either.

Just a few things that tell you that Lincoln was not what people think. It's in the record. :)

Abraham Lincoln

President Abraham Lincoln - (Racist,Destroyer of the Republic and Constitution) when asked "Why not let the South go in peace?" Lincoln replied: "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?"

In order to coalesce the forces in the North, Lincoln had to stage an incident to inflame the populace, which he did. The firing on Sumter was by his own admission a setup for just such action. Lincoln was aware that provisioning Sumter could provoke a war.

Lincoln's letter to Gustavus Fox on 1 May, 1861, makes it clear that he was pleased by the result of the firing on Ft Sumter..." You and I both anticipated that the cause of the country would be advanced by making the attempt to provision Ft Sumter, even if it should fail; and it is no small consolation now to feel that our anticipation is justified by the result. "

Abraham Lincoln said the following on September 18, 1858 in a speech in Charleston, Illinois:

"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been , in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races [applause]: that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable a most sacred right a right, which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government, may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so much territory as they inhabit." - Abraham Lincoln

"I am not in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office." - Abraham Lincoln Campaign Speech

"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery". - Abraham Lincoln First Inaugural Address

"I am a little uneasy about the abolishment of slavery in this District (of Columbia)." To Horace Greeley

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it". To Horace Greeley

"What then will become of my tariff?" Abraham Lincoln to Virginia compromise delegation, March 1861.

On August 14, 1862, Lincoln received a deputation of free Negroes at the White House to which he said, "But for your race there could not be war...It is better for us both, therefore, to be separated." He advocated colonization in Central America and promised them help in carrying out the project.

"Such separation...must be effected by colonization...to transfer the African to his native clime, and we shall find a way to do it, however great the task may be." From a speech delivered in Springfield, IL; 26 June 1857 "What I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black races." From a speech in Springfield; 17 July 1858

"I will say here...I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black race...there is a physical difference between the two, which...will forever forbid them living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and...I am in favor of the race to which I belong, having the superior position." Reply to Stephen A. Douglas in the first joint debate, Ottowa, IL; 21 Aug 1858

"...I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races...nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes...nor to intermarry with white people...I have never seen to my knowledge a man, woman, or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social or political, between Negroes and white men." Opening speech, fourth joint debate with Douglas, Charleston, IL; 18 Sep 1858

And, while prosecuting the war to "free the slaves," Lincoln said:
"I cannot make it better known than it already is, that I strongly favor colonization...in congenial climes, and with people of their own blood and race." Annual message to Congress; 1 Dec 1862

"The [Emancipation] proclamation has no constitutional or legal justification except as a war measure." Letter to Sec. of Treas. Salmon P. Chase; 3 Sep 1863

[Protagoras]

George Mason bump. For him, the school named after him, and the truths they teach there. Walter E Williams bump.

[A. Patriot]

Could someone tell me if it is true that the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in areas that the U.S. government did NOT control? That slaves in other areas such as Maryland were freed later when the 14th Amendment was passed?

Also, is it true that Robert E. Lee freed his slaves before the War, but U.S.Grant's wife's slaves were freed only when the 14th Amendment was passed?

I have always heard these things but don't know if they are true. Remember, the victor gets to write the history.

A. Patriot, from the "Occupied South"

[ZULU]

Although I am sympathetic to the South, slavery was truly a repugnant institution.

Having said that, if anyone can read "April 1865, the Month That Saved the Nation", do so.

It puts everything into perspective. Southern Generals, rather than see the nation torn by bloody guerilla warfare, chose to surrender when conventional warfare was no longer the option. Northerners like Lincoln and Grant opting to end hostilities as soon as possible without the bloody recriminations which marked the end of most civil wars.

America was fortunate in the character of her opponents during this bloody conflict, and Lincoln's tragic and untimely death was the worst blow the Confederacy received, next to its defeat. With Lincoln in office, there would have been no oppressive Reconstruction, Carpetbaggers, KuKlux Klan, etc.

[waterstraat]

Allowing states to succeed, is a very effective check and balance measure, that absoultely prevents our originally concieved limited "federal" government from ever becoming a strong powerful central "national" government. It also prevents the federal government from ever assuming any powers or authority not expressly specified and given to it by the Constitution.

[Burkeman1]

Are we still fighting this war? As an "Irish American" from the North I will say this. The South had better soldiers and better leaders. The South also had a gripe about tariffs. But the South fired first and in every CSA's declaration of secession they cite the protection of African slavery as the prime reason for secession. So don't tell me the war was about cotton tariffs or some other nonesense. Lincoln would have been content to merely limit the expansion of slavery into the terroritories. It was the hot head idiot aristocracy of the South that brought iupon itself war and ruin.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

You're gonna love this!