H-1B debate flares as EE jobless rate hits 7 percent

The Work Circuit ^ | April 15, 2003 | Margaret Quan

[mabelkitty]

MANHASSET, N.Y. — Unemployment among electronic engineers soared to 7 percent in the first quarter, the U.S. Department of Labor said last week, surpassing the national jobless rate of 5.8 percent recorded in March.

At the same time, some industry groups are considering lobbying for legislation to raise the annual quota for H-1B visas and allow more foreign technical workers into the United States.

[G Larry]

Guess you two couldn't get past my 1st point and on to the 2nd point.
Both need to be addressed.
I'm surrounded by H-1s, so no need to clear that point up w me.
The way I read the law it says the number of H-1s granted is determined by domestic skill shortage.
Since none exists, enforce the law & reduce # of H-1s.

[A. Pole]

Slight correction to your post: there's a high demand for software people. Except its in India. Mind if he takes a field trip and works for $5/hr?

The trick is that this $5/hr in India is quite a good pay and provides acceptable standard of living! Many Americans if they knew it, would not mind to spend some time in this exotic and interesting country.

But I doubt if Indians will give those jobs to Americans - rather they will keep it for their own people.

[discostu]

Actually a lot of automotive jobs have come back to America. Japanese companies are realizing that the tarriffs are much cheaper on raw materials than finished goods and the land here is much cheaper so they can build huge sprawling factories.

[Jhoffa_]

You know, it's interesting how I now hear people howling about immigration and jobs when it's their ox that's being gored.

But, until it reached the professional level it was all "wonderful" and "good for the economy" "diversity is our strength" and so on and so forth.

You should have posted a "Hypocrite Alert" on this one.

[A. Pole]

The way I read the law it says the number of H-1s granted is determined by domestic skill shortage. Since none exists, enforce the law & reduce # of H-1s.

Or there is one change which would be friendly to the H-1B workers and which would expose the corporate hypocrisy.

Let grant every H-1B worker right to switch job anytime or even quit it for a while without losing his visa! This will be the step toward freedom and to equal playing field.

[Spyder]

Thanks for all the replies.

Both our kids have been tempted to put Asian or some such under "ethnicity" on forms. We live in Hawaii - they say the "feel" Asian, and isn't that all the libs require? If Billy Bob Clinton can be our first black president... shoot, we should be able to pass as Asian.

[MattAMiller]

OK, I get your meaning now. I'm sorry for misreading you, but I didn't parse the second sentence correctly.

[Spyder]

Thanks for the long, informative post - I'll pass it along to our son. He isn't sure yet if he wants something where there'd be demand in Hawaii or if he'd prefer the mainland.

[Paco]

I work with engineers every day and it's cyclical of which engineering discipline is in demand. There was a time when a chemical engineer couldn't buy a job and EE's were all being hired. Good ME's are always in demand although I see more and more VERY GOOD mechanical people coming out of tech school without a 4 year degree. What's this mean? It means that no one can tell your son which way to go, hence, he should do what he enjoys.

Btw, I find it absolutely amazing that 5-6% unemployment is anything to worry about. When I was in college ('78-'83) we were taught that 5-5.5% unemployment was NORMAL. Wow, how things have changed...or have they?

[Billy_bob_bob]

I must protest. I was one (of the extremely few) who was complaining about this trend as far back as the 80's. I can point you to several people who knew me back then who will back me up on this assertation. When they were saying "high-tech is the future" I was saying "Why is it a good thing to ship all of our industries offshore?"

One thing I've realized is that not everyone has the ability or the incliniation to become an engineer. Many who try fail, because it is difficult, demanding and often tedious work. So does that mean that someone who doesn't have the skills to build a computer chip, but who does have the skills to make machine parts or shoes or textiles should give up on the idea of having a job?

I'm not automatically against immigration or imports, but I do believe that charity begins at home, and that relentlessly driving down wages through immigration and imports does not do good things for our nation. I would like to see stores sell shoes that are made in many different places, including the U.S. Instead I see stores that are chock full of goods from China, and only China.

Not all of us techies have been on the globalist bandwagon. Some of us (admittedly very, very few) saw this one coming decades ago.

[Spyder]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll pass the thread along to him.

[Billy_bob_bob]

They've jiggered the numbers. 5% unemployment nowadays is the equivalent of 9% or more, as reported thirty years ago. The "official" unemployment number is not a good indicator of actual unemployment.

[mabelkitty]

Actually, Japanese companies did it because we are their largest market. Makes more sense than having them shipped over here.

[mabelkitty]

Again, how would I know it was "hypocrital"?

I have a job, and this doesn't affect me.

Same with the first manufacturing wave.

I posted it out of a courtesy and a warning.

[EverOnward]

We had "non-disclosure" agreements and legal council before we talked to VC's. We still got screwed. It all comes down to who has the most money to spend on the case.

I've worked 30 years for corporate lawyers -- and you hit the nail on the head. In this country, justice goes to the guy with the deepest pockets and the ability to keep the case alive.

[luckystarmom]

If he's technical, then I would suggest any sort of engineering degree. I have a computer science degree, but I'm a stay at home mom. My best friend went into Civil Engineering. I think they always stay in demand. It's not as high a paying job as some of the other engineering degrees, but there's a lot of flexibility.

I think a civil engineering degree with a minor in computer science would be a great combo. Lots of the civil engineers are not good at computers, and they could use the help. A lot of the tasks they do could be automated.

Where does your son want to go to school?

[Jhoffa_]

I feel pretty much the same way.

I just don't know what to do about it.

[Orbiting_Rosie's_Head]

At the very least, we need to get active in lobbying, pool our dwindling disposable incomes together, and start to compete with our former employers in the Capitol Hill influence market.

I'm in. Whatever you need. I'm at a telecom company that has laid off many of the engineers born in the US. Many of our departments are now half Chinese H1B or more. I'm sick of it. I can't understand a damn word most of them say. I want them gone. Send me freepmail. Let's get this thing rolling.

[Billy_bob_bob]

I was on a contract job once at a big Silicon Valley employer. I worked on one project, finished it, and started on another. They moved me into a department that was about %95 Chinese, the rest were from India, and then there was me. All day long I got to listen to everybody around me talking in Chinese. I could go for weeks at a time and not say one word to one person all day. I finally got fed up and walked out.

The funny thing is, two months later that department got shut down. I don't know if it was because of me or not, but I do know that while I was working everybody else was standing around and talking. About what, I don't know, since I don't speak Chinese.

I agree, we need to start organizing. How to begin?