Beating down a woman: Vox Day on martial arts and the myth of the American Amazon

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Tuesday, April 15, 2003 | Vox Day

[JohnHuang2]

I've beaten down a few women in my time. I'm not writing metaphorically here. I'm talking about punching a girl in the face, doubling her over by kicking her in the stomach, then putting her down on the ground with a right cross to the side of the head. I can't say I didn't enjoy it – an adrenaline rush doesn't know gender.

Now, before my inbox overflows with outraged accusations of criminal Neanderthalian misogyny, I should probably point out that this all took place in the brutal full-contact martial-arts dojo that was my home away from home for almost six years. I still remember my first day there, seeing all the fighters in their black robes and the savage gleam in their eyes as they warily circled each other before exploding in a paroxysm of violence. It was truly a place apart – a broken ankle was a cause for mockery and uproarious laughter, and if one was so unfortunate as to get knocked out during a sparring session … well, to that ignominy was added the expense of buying the victor's drinks that evening.

Of every 10 newcomers, one remained a month later. Few – very few – ever reached the highest level, as the punishing belt tests were not so much sought as fearfully avoided at all costs. They were tests of skill and discipline, but more than anything, they tested one's willingness to get back on one's feet after being knocked down, again and again.

There weren't many women in our midst, understandably enough. But I was close to one in particular, we called her "Penthouse" because of her long, flowing mane of hair and her not-quite-ready-for-Playboy prettiness. She was a single mother who'd been pushed around by her ex-husband one too many times and she was determined to learn how to defend herself. After three years, she was called on the carpet to test for her green, and I was one of those selected for her sparring test, which consisted of six consecutive two-minute rounds against three high-level fighters, none of whom had just been through a grueling three-hour demonstration of every strike, kick and kata in our repertoir.

By the fifth round, she was exhausted and bruised, barely able to keep her hands up to her chin, much less defend herself. She was nearly helpless, but she must have sensed my desire to take it easy on her, because she snarled at me not to dis her like that, that she'd earned the right to be treated as a fighter and a Dragon. And she had, so it was with genuine affection and admiration that I dropped her twice in the next two exchanges, leaving her with a black eye and a bloody nose. It was a wonderful performance on her part, as she never hesitated to pick herself up, unaided, from the concrete floor. A few months later, the entire dojo cheered her on as she mercilessly destroyed the competition and won her first tournament – never having fought a woman before, she said afterward that she couldn't believe how weak and slow her opponents were, how easy it had been when compared with her training.

But if my time in the martial arts taught me to respect the inherent toughness and mental resolve of women, it has also taught me that combat of any sort is no place for them. It may be easy for a woman who hasn't taken a straight-line headshot from a 200-pound man to spin airy myths of martial equality, but no woman like "Penthouse" would ever believe them, and only a man who hasn't felt for himself how easy it is to smash a woman to the ground would take them seriously for a second.

Modern combat may be less strenuous than it was in the age of the heavily-armored Greek hoplite, but it is still physically punishing. The fluid nature of America's new uberblitz tactics means that the attacking forces must carry more of their own supplies on their backs, and indicates that the supply lines will often be operating behind enemy lines.

The capture of Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson and the fact that a significant percentage of our casualties came from a maintenance company does not support the foolish myth of the American Amazon. Instead, it proves that women should be excluded from far more elements of the U.S. military than they are today.

[JohnHuang2]

Tuesday, April 15, 2003

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[Thorondir]

You got that right. I own a Kung Fu school and my thirty+ years of observation in that arena show that a well trained woman can trash most untrained men, but, given the same training, nearly every man will take her out with ease, unless she is a very unusually large and manly woman. Is is a grave disservice to tell women that they are men. (And it's a lie.)

Just reality folks. Nothing to see here. Move along.

[Tin-Legions]

Im going to disagree with you slightly. Even well trained women usually dont have the strength/stamina/speed to compete with a healthy male. In my very limited martial arts experience, I had almost no problem dealing punishment to several black-belted women in my training dojo. And I never advanced farther than the middle stages of my chosen practices-tae kwon do and shotokan karate. Although I am a soldier, Im only 30-50 pounds heavier than many women, and Ive found that I can deal effectively with that weight gap when engaging men, whereas women cannot.
So-run any schools in the VA area? Ill be back home soon.
take care.

[petuniasevan]

Good article. Poorman is always trying to convince me that I'm stronger than him. HA! He isn't trying to hurt me! Once he ACCIDENTALLY made hard contact. I bounced off a wall and had bruises from my shoulder to my ankle.

The only way a woman is going to best a man in hand-to-hand combat is to employ the element of surprise. If she can kick him just right, he's down. But she may find herself blocked or put in a "hold". With only (on average) 1/3 the upper body strength of men, women have to face the fact that they cannot do as well as men in the realm of physical strength.

[.45MAN]

(((((PING)))))

[JudgemAll]

Well, what is needed is penetrating punches and good situational awareness. Force and speed of men is useful in the former, but also in the latter, because although force can be leveraged against by the oponent's pivot, once hit hard, someone is destablilized and the other has a better situational awareness than the other.

So a woman can damage the situational awareness of a man by striking him first and leveraging out his movements, but in the end this requires higher situational awareness work for her and her lack of strength diminishes her ability to reduce situational of her opponent. Weaker subjects in fact merely touch intead of hit and thus help the opponent get guided. In other words when you touch or hit your opponent, you better have done it hard enough and well placed enough - a forciori when moving.

Strength is not all in combat, a good scalable situational awareness and "operating system" are important to combine forces. However trying to substitute strength with good situational awareness is a gamble, because higher situational awareness work, while being beneficial, is also a greater work load and can make hits ineffective.

[JudgemAll]

I must add that a group of women against fewer men could become an effective scaled fighting force, however it always will make their force more complex and less reliable, requiring more intensive training than men's, something they cannot handle. It's just too much.

[JudgemAll]

However trying to substitute strength with good situational awareness is a gamble, because higher situational awareness work, while being beneficial, is also a greater work load and can make hits ineffective.

Note also that men are not situational and geometrical defficient compared to women either, so as equals there, men win with strength obviously. Women win with sluty politics, deception and chance. Women are more masterly in stealth than in brute strength.

[Bon mots]

Right on. Women watch that nonsense like "Charlie's Angels" and even Matrix has women beating on men. This is bad. The first time a woman tries that stuff, she's going to get really slammed, really hard.

I have always trained with women, and always gone easy on them. Otherwise, it would be messy.

The only martial art that might be helpful for them would be Wing Tsun, which was developed by a woman and with the goal of defeating a man. Shorter arms are an asset, the style does not require great strenght or stamina, no fancy face kicks or spinning back kicks. Again, it would only work against an untrained man.

[Rifleman]

The empty hand martial arts are not the answer to the self defense needs of anyone who cannot spend several hours a week at practice or anyone not young, healthy and agile. They are far from useless, but a handgun is enormously more effective for most. And with gun-fu you don't even have to muss your hair.

That said, the poise and situational awareness that the martial arts teach is very useful in a self defense situation.

[demosthenes the elder]

It is not only the fact that women usually cannot match male casual and peak output strength, nor that men generally have a longer reach.
There is also the fact that men tend to be more decisive in a linear objective solution scenario than are women.
There is also the simple fact of bone density - since men generally weigh more and are stronger and are pumped full of testosterone, our bones are denser - they have to be to sustain the forces our mass and muscle exert on our frames. That means that a backhand or punch that might merely annoy a man will usually damage a woman's bones.
There is also the simple fact of mass. Case in point: I am exceedingly strong for my weight, but I only weigh 150 lbs. Simple newtonian mechanics governs physical labor and combat. There are many things that I am not capable of doing as easily as a man who out-masses me by 30-50 lbs, simply because the principle of "equal and opposite reaction" effects my lesser mass more than their greater mass. Physics does not bow to PC.
I have known a few effective women fighters.
They were effective because they did not try to fight as men do, but used their female characteristics to advantage (dexterity, flexibility, greater per-pound leg strength, lower center of mass, and a certain female viciousness which most men cannot imagine let alone match). However, only a few, and even they could not stand against an equally trained man of the same mass, let alone a heavier one.
Reality trumps pipe dreams.
I wish the feminazis would buy a clue.

[dansangel]

No surprises here. Even when I was in top physical shape, an abusive ex-spouse could take me down with one arm.

That's why I advocate gun ownership and gun safety classes for women - the "great equalizer." .45MAN and I took an armed self-defense class - another strong recommendation for women interested in self defense.

It's a well-known fact that women can (and do) outshoot men.

(((jh2)))

[nicmarlo]

It's a well-known fact that women can (and do) outshoot men.

That's what I've heard, but on my first attempt last fall, I couldn't hit the target from 20 feet away.....but I got the brick supporting the target real good! : )

[demosthenes the elder]

I have taught several hunred people how to shoot.
About 40% of them have been women.
I would say that almost 100% of the time, women are better natural shots than men - so long as care has been taken prior to firing live rounds to make damned sure they are not afraid of the gun.
I have been shooting for 25 years now.
I have been in the situation of having a first-time female shooter I have taught VASTLY outperform my pistol accuracy inside of her first four magazines.
Pleasing, and humiliating, all at once.

[Rubber_Duckie_27]

I did Aikido for about a year (loved it, but it conflicted with my class schedule)...I am a fairly muscular woman with a large bone structure, and I still got the stuffing beat out of me. Aikido has a reuptation for being a gentle art, but it's just the nature of the beast that the men would have an advantage.

Most of the men were surprisingly gentle (I wasn't the only woman in the class). They didn't go out of their way to inflict pain on any partner, male or female, but they were easier on a female training partner. There was one guy, though...he was only happy if his female partners were bruised and battered...we hated him with a passion. He was a short, stocky man with a domineering girlfriend, so the other women and I figured he liked to cause us pain to get back at her psychologically.

I'll have to look into Wing Tsun. I'd like to get back into martial arts.

[dansangel]

Pleasing, and humiliating, all at once.

Bless your heart for posting that. Thank-you for your supportive analysis.

[demosthenes the elder]

be sure to investigate the occidental martial arts of ching-ching-pow and shuk-chuk-boom as well.

[FreedomPoster]

I saw .45man had pinged you. If you hadn't posted that, I was about to.

>>It's a well-known fact that women can (and do) outshoot men.

I've been to the range with dansangel and 45man. She fails to boast for herself, so I'll do it for her. I took them to the range for their first trip to try out rifles (they were already accomplished with pistols). 45man did quite well for a first-time, but dansangel was, by the end of the day, shooting about as well as me. And I'm no match winner, but do more than OK.

[dansangel]

It may have been that the gun was not right for your hand. Also, the instructions prior to shooting the gun may not have been accurate. It took me a while to find a caliber and gun that works best for me. (Both displayed on my profile page).

I wouldn't give up. Please read post 15 from demosthenes the elder. And, practice, practice practice! :-)

((((nicmarlo))))