Israeli Military Amazed, "Jealous" At U.S. War Against Iraq

World Tribune.com ^ | 04/14/2003 | Special to World Tribune

[Dirk McQuickly]

TEL AVIV — Israeli defense officials and military commanders have expressed amazement over the capture of one of the largest and most powerful Arab countries by what they say amounted to fewer than three U.S. Army divisions.

The officials said the U.S. strategy of avoiding enemy troop concentrations as well as exploiting combat air supremacy comprises methods far more advanced than those employed by the Israeli military.

"This has been a very strange and unprecedented war and it will take us awhile to learn what took place," Yuval Steinetz, chairman of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, said. "We will have to learn from this war and draw the conclusions."

"I am jealous of them [U.S. military]," Maj. Gen. Dan Harel, head of the Israel military's C4 directorate, said. "They have advanced in areas that we were leading in only a few years ago. They have the ability to put everything together in command and control. Our navy and air force have systems. but we have to integrate them."

Officials and military commanders agreed that the U.S. war in Iraq overshadowed the 1967 Israeli victory over four Arab countries, including Iraq. They said the United States sustained about 100 casualties in three weeks of fighting that resulted in the capture of Baghdad and most Iraqi cities. In contrast, about 600 Israeli soldiers were killed in the six days of the 1967 war, most of them in the ground battle with Egypt in the Sinai Peninsula.

[arielb]

yes politics can screw up even the best military. Mogadishu under clinton is another example

[ApesForEvolution]

Here you go again Joe. Just answer this one question this one time: Do you know why Israel hasn't offed the little rat yet?

[AxelPaulsenJr]

"Dirk McQuickly" ?

[ApesForEvolution]

Yeah, the exact number I heard for production was 700. Tell me more about the JASSMs if you would please.

[Cuttnhorse]

In Victor Davis Hanson's great book, CARNAGE AND CULTURE, Landmark Battles That Defined Western Power, Hanson describes how the West developed an incredible knack for killing. In this book he describes nine key battles that illustrate the critical elements that defined Western power, including individual initiative, superior organization and discipline, access to the best weapons and tactical adaptation and flexibility.

While I was reading Hanson's book, the thought occurred to me that the Iraqi’s don’t have a chance, even if they are stupid enough to use gas, bio weapons or whatever. Their culture completely limits them because they lack the critical elements for success in battle, (and life) mentioned above. That is the reason middle Eastern cultures are becoming smaller and smaller in the rear view mirror of the West.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Here, try a banana.......

[xlib]

Key components of the strategy: pick a country that 1)is 20+ years behind you technologically
2)wants you to liberate them
3)has an army that will drop their guns at the first whiff of gunpowder
4)has no air defense capability beyond a few AAAs Meet those conditions, and execute your plan with complete excellence, and success will follow.

Item 2 should be listed first, since 1, 3, and 4 seem to flow from 2. Turns out to be a good way to ID a 'just war' as well.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

Why would anyone want to study a quagmire like this? :-)

[ApesForEvolution]

See, you, simply put, are intellectually dishonest at best and an anti-semite at worst.

[tophat9000]

It would be interesting to find out exactly what caused the lights to go out.

They were saying on FOX today that a natural gas line that brings gas for all Bagndad power plants was cut outside the city

[eBelasco]

Item 2 should be listed first, since 1, 3, and 4 seem to flow from 2.
Makes sense.

Turns out to be a good way to ID a 'just war' as well.
Not so sure I agree with that. What's the cutoff point? 50% +1? How do you poll them? I don't know. Tough to decide.

[xlib]

I don't mean to suggest that this be the sole criterion, just one of several.

[konaice]

"I believe the northcomm stew is a completely different kettle of fish heads. Artillery poised on Seoul seems to be one of two main heads that needs to be cut off immediately. The other would be missiles/nukes."

You perhaps (mistakenly) believed that the MOAB demonstration was for Iraq's enlightenment?

Kim Il Jong got the message.

[desertcry]

If N. Koea uses it's nukes, the war will be microseconds short. N. Korea will be one solid piece of radio active glass in less than a blink of an eyelash. If the N. Koreans don't use their nukes, then the war might last a few weeks.

[whadizit]

I do not see them as being jealous as much as grateful for eliminating threat to Israel! Admiration is a better word, IMO.

[eBelasco]

Right. It would have to follow some other conditions about the legitimacy of the regime, the legitimacy of the system of gov't etc. You wouldn't want the Chinese invading just because a lot of people didn't like Klinton.

[John H K]

Well, one thing is I constantly see the TOTAL number of artillery tubes the DPRK has along the DMZ used as the number of DPRK artillery tubes that can hit Seoul from BEHIND the DMZ..those number in the hundreds, not thousands as you see claimed so often.

And I think people are assuming the population of Seoul is simply going to politely stand in the streets and stay in their high-rise buildings while the bombardment goes on.

They aren't; they're going to head to the subways, to basements, or south away from Seoul (and the traffic problems thus caused are a headache themselves, of course.) But humans have an amazing ability to survive bombardment that you would assume to be unsurviveable, AS LONG as you can avoid the creation of a firestorm. And I suspect that won't happen in Seoul.

There hasn't been a conventional war or invasion or bombardment in the history of the world that has killed "millions" of civilians in a few days or weeks, and there never will be.

Of course, people are going to talk about chems, which are somewhat overrated, even against civilian populations.

It's questionable how sustainable a DPRK application of Chems is going to be against Seoul.

When the Iraqis gassed Halabja I believe they spent an entire day spraying the place with helicopters; the DPRK isn't going to be able to air-deliver any chems at all, most likely.

And their artillery will eventually be found and taken out, especially if it tries continuous bombardment.

And I don't think the North Korean Army itself will make it to Seoul.

You're looking at several thousand South Korean civilians killed in the first few days; that's bad enough.

I think hundreds of thousands or millions is a silly estimate.

The problem with numbers is that people like big ones, and they especially like it when you get to a million or more (look at the longevity of the myth that the US estimated we'd have "1 million troops dead" in an invasion of Japan.)

[XJarhead]

I read somewhere some quotes from some Marines that they could not believe the tactical ineptness of the Iraqis they faced. They said it was like they had no officers, and the ones they did have couldn't do anything right.

Exactly. It's not all technology -- not even close. In firefights, or duking it out with snipers, having superior air power and armor matters a lot less. Many times, it just comes down to who is more tactically skilled, and that's training.

[konaice]

"Actually effective shoulder launched anti-tank weapons"

Well "effeective" is the key word isn't it.
And don't forget the need for "Effective" when dealing
with those three man teams you suggest. The arab world
is still far from produceing very many of those....

[Joe Hadenuf]

See, you, simply put, are intellectually dishonest at best and an anti-semite at worst.

Oh crapola.......Don't start with the anti-semite script, just because Israel can't even figure out how to get rid of the ugly idiot, Yasar Arafat....I mean when they went in there with construction equipment, and pounded on his offices for several days, for what? For TV ratings? LOL! That was embarrassing and offensive.......

I mean they seem to have a great deal of problems dealing with people that are about as well armed as any garden varity American street gang....