Israeli Military Amazed, "Jealous" At U.S. War Against Iraq

World Tribune.com ^ | 04/14/2003 | Special to World Tribune

[Dirk McQuickly]

TEL AVIV — Israeli defense officials and military commanders have expressed amazement over the capture of one of the largest and most powerful Arab countries by what they say amounted to fewer than three U.S. Army divisions.

The officials said the U.S. strategy of avoiding enemy troop concentrations as well as exploiting combat air supremacy comprises methods far more advanced than those employed by the Israeli military.

"This has been a very strange and unprecedented war and it will take us awhile to learn what took place," Yuval Steinetz, chairman of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, said. "We will have to learn from this war and draw the conclusions."

"I am jealous of them [U.S. military]," Maj. Gen. Dan Harel, head of the Israel military's C4 directorate, said. "They have advanced in areas that we were leading in only a few years ago. They have the ability to put everything together in command and control. Our navy and air force have systems. but we have to integrate them."

Officials and military commanders agreed that the U.S. war in Iraq overshadowed the 1967 Israeli victory over four Arab countries, including Iraq. They said the United States sustained about 100 casualties in three weeks of fighting that resulted in the capture of Baghdad and most Iraqi cities. In contrast, about 600 Israeli soldiers were killed in the six days of the 1967 war, most of them in the ground battle with Egypt in the Sinai Peninsula.

[eBelasco]

Many times, it just comes down to who is more tactically skilled, and that's training.

Right. If the Fedayeen guys were SAS or whatnot, they'd do a lot better with their RPGs.

[adx]

Israeli Military Amazed, "Jealous" At U.S. War Against Iraq

Tell ya what, Israel. Howz bout you practice on Syria, while we do the same on (Iran/Saudi/Pakistan/N.Korea/France)?

[XJarhead]

I was teaching tactics to Marine Lt.'s in the mid-late 80's, and the OODA loop was just becoming big. We drilled in how important it was to give subordinates flexibility, to communicate effectively, and to make fast decisions. That's how you screw up the other guy's loop.

One huge advantage we have is our decentralizaed decisionmaking. When commanders have latitude to act as they see fit without always getting approval first, they short-circuit the OODA loop and gain a tremendous advantage. Most countries simply can't do that because their troops aren't sufficiently trained, or they lack a culture of initiative at the lower level. That gives us a huge tactical advantage against most potential foes.

[Vinnie]

I'm still not sure the very existence of EMP bombs wasn't a clever bit of pre-battle disinformation designed to keep them busy countering imaginary weapons.

I thought that it was announced that we used one in the first attack on the Baghdad TV station.
If so, back to the drawing boards, the station was back on the air a few hours later. The signal was weaker but it was broadcasting.

[eBelasco]

It gives you an advantage in life and business in general. How many times are people frustrated at work because they are restricted in taking the initiative on something, either because they are not skilled enough to, or the company won't allow it?

[RightWhale]

America has THE most battle hardened military in the world

It does now, in a manner of speaking. Unless there is another such war, the effects will wear off in about 20 years. Still, it is only one in a hundred of the general population who now has battle experience, and most of those are 70-90 and most of the rest are 50-60.

[txzman]

However going up against a country with a large stockpile of new SAMs and anti-ship Sunbeam missles would be a very different story regarding the air and naval war.

Outcome would be the same eventually, but casualties would be much, much higher.

[dead]

I don't know if they used it.

They are very hush-hush about it, that's why I'm not sure it's even real.

And as you said, if it is real, they certainly haven't proven its effectiveness.

[zarf]

a war against NK would be a blood letting of the first order. we would eventually take em, but the toll in lives would be devestating.

[konaice]

"I thought that it was announced that we used one in the first attack on the Baghdad TV station.
If so, back to the drawing boards, the station was back on the air a few hours later. The signal was weaker but it was broadcasting"

Yeah, from the back of a mobile van.

After the first few hours, we had so many special forces and
air assetts in Baghdad that we could not employ them without hurting ourselves.

[Jumper]

North Korea would have to maneuver through 26-miles and 26-barriers to get to Seoul; if and when they manage this, the North Korean's have special military units to try to cut through the City.... North Korea is very much afraid that their soldiers would stop fighting if they ever reached Seould due to the impact of the CIVILIZATION they would encounter there. North Korea cannot affort to ever go into Seoul, but can only hope to by-pass the city spraw which is now nearly impossible. Yes, they might kill 4-5 million South Koreans, but they will be destroyed in the process.

North Korean Military Leaders have been contemplating a war of agression in which they would sacrafice the entire military machine so that the North could then collaspe and be provided aid/reunification under the US/UN and SK. Launching a war they hope to lose....

[walden]

Great book: "Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War" by Robert Coram.

I'm not a military person, but I wanted to understand such things better and my sweetie (old Marine) recommended this one. It's a great story, and deals a good bit with OODA, although Boyd did a lot of other fascinating stuff as well.

[Cuttnhorse]

See my post #85...you are exactly correct.

[Light Speed]

Hansons book sounds like a great read...will try to obtain said in the future.

With each military conflict ...observable lessons are machinated 24.

Was reading a Russian periodical recently....kinda scary .in that the article mused on whats known as Russia's "Space Forces"....reflections on arming in sphere 3 to effect geostrategic influence...reflections also in advancing nuclear missile capability..then pushing it forward as a negotioation tool with the U.S.,...or rather...and extortion tool for negotiation.

Russia and China are undoubtadly intimidated by what they have seen of late by U.S. Military Primacy....they will be burning the candle 24 to relieve some of that personal insecurity.

Satillite grid and comm link to defense forces is the main body the Russians and Chinese would go for....change the conflict from the outset.

Some muse over how easy it would be to thrash Russia and China...
I'm with others Like Clancy..who comment that you really do not want to go on them...not if you want to have a nation left to come home to.
Both contries could obsorb multiple nuclear hits...have cites and populace blown away in grand numerics...but could America sustain such a blow.

It would be great if History shifted...and only little tin pot dictators bought the farm...that history would forbid the great horror of U.S.,Russia and China going nuclear on each other.

[meema]

bump

[SuziQ]

and would likely overrun Seoul and kill millions of South Koreans within days of the first sign of an invasion.

In my opinion this is a ridiculously exagerrated number, though you often see it claimed in a variety of articles.

The Korean Peninsula is not that large, and Seoul is not that far from the DMZ. The NKs could have missles on the ground in Seoul in 15 mins., with their troops pouring over the border just under them. There are a lot of SKs near the border, and though we have troops there, it would take a few minutes to get our helos and fighter jets in the air. The NKs may not get that far on the ground, and would eventually lose, but they would have killed plenty of SKs in Seoul and near the border in the first hour of their attack.

I sure hope we have lots of Patriot batteries there.

[Paraclete]

I don't believe the electronic bomb was used. Somewhere, I read that it would be a two-edged sword that ultimately could damage us more than them. To introduce this bomb could be a bad thing for us in the future. Better to save that one for a future enemy.

[konaice]

"North Korean Military Leaders have been contemplating a war of agression in which they would sacrafice the entire military machine so that the North could then collaspe and be provided aid/reunification under the US/UN and SK. Launching a war they hope to lose...."

Hog wash. You made that up. Post a link to a reliable source or retract it.

[RinaseaofDs]

For the US and the UK, it was the whole package.

The all-volunteer military (people who want to fight, motivated to defend the country, motivated by 9/11), the technology, the integration of command, control, coordination, and communication, having great intelligence, and lots of other things.

The enemy wasn't motivated, and neither was the populace. Can you imagine trying to invade the US? The Japanese believed there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass. They're right. The US love's its country and way of life. Iraqi's, Iranians, NK's, Syrians do not. Neither by the way do Saudi's.

We attack oppressive governments. That's the key. Oppressive governments are run by sick people. Sick people have trouble coordinating war efforts objectively. North Korea is getting a huge whiff of that right now. NK can rattle their sabres all they want, but I think they are starting to find out what the limitations of a starving conscript military actually are. Syria is ultimately not that stupid either. They will come around.

It will be nice to give the military a break soon. Syria and NK will have to be dealt with diplomatically, as will Iran. I think at this point, they can be, having done the militarily impossible twice now (Afghanistan and Iraq were both supposed to be quagmires), I think that these other countries now believe that when Bush says something, its on the level. 9/11 was the biggest mistake radical Islam ever made, and it will probably result in a unipolar world for the foreseeable future.

It may also lead to the death of liberalism, as one of the key qualifiers for the office of President has become possessing the credibility to defend the country from not just other countries, but terrorism. I think that unless Sam Nunn decides to run for President, the D's have lost any credibility to attend to national defense. Security issues and economic issues are now on fairly equal footing it seems.

A lot of people will say it was air superiority. Remember that we launched the ground war first, without a massive bombardment that came with Gulf War I. The fact that Iraq had no air assets deployed? That sort of helped.

[Wright is right!]

"Israel is no stanger to shock and awe. They shocked and awe'ed the Arab world in six days, just 25 yrs ago."

Word is that all their gear was rented by the week and they had to turn it back in to avoid forfeiting their deposit.

Michael