Ron Silver: "The end of my days as a prominent liberal"

C-Span | 4/12/03 | Scothia

[Scothia]

Actor Ron Silver, addressing the Pro-USA and pro-troops rally in Washington DC today and responding to his introduction as a "prominent linberal" said "I think you've seen the end of my days as prominent liberal."

"Peace at what risk? Peace on whose terms? Peace for how long?" he went on. "There are worse things than war. People who think nothing is worth a war is worse."

The enthusiastic crowd cheered as Silver evoked Elie Wiesel and the lessons learned through the horrors of Nazi Germany, enunciating the reasons for America's humanitarian intervention in Iraq.

Following Silver, Linda Chavez remarked that she herself was a former liberal, and invited Silver to join the conservative ranks. "We ought to have a support group for ex-liberals," she said, laughing.

[Illbay]

I agree with you about the importance of the GATHERING of the Jews to Israel, but that is NOT the whole of the GATHERING OF ALL ISRAEL.

FWIW, on Sunday, October 24, 1841, the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde wrote and offered a prayer dedicating Palestine for the return of the Jews and for the building of a temple in the future. After his prayer Orson Hyde built two stone altars patterned after those of ancient Israel for memorials. The first memorial was on the Mount of Olives and the second on Mt. Moriah.

As far as I know, the memorial on the Mount of Olives is still there, and is now surrounded by a little park.

[GraniteStateConservative]

Silver for Senate 2004-- kick Boxer to the curb!

[Samwise]

A conservative is a liberal who grew up.

[GraniteStateConservative]

No, it's the old phrase: A conservative is a liberal who got mugged.

A lot of liberals were mugged on 9/11 and they have re-evaluated things since then.

Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton-- all had periods of awful job approval ratings-- like the 30s and early 40s. Bush 43 has not. It's extraordinary and there is no other way to explain it other than that the earth has shifted. 2002 saw the 53 nation. After seeing long-oppressed liberated Iraqis and after seeing the real WMD threat of Hussein's regime, we may see a 55% nation. Reagan did nothing to move the goal line so much closer to the line of scrimmage compared to what Bush 43 has.

[GraniteStateConservative]

I think we could see a serious liberal third party and the breaking away of the Democrats as we know them. A Green Party that wins 10% of the vote and a New Democrat party that competes with the GOP for the rest of the pie. The Democrats have had a historically long run as a united party.

[Illbay]

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
--Philippians 2:10-11

This has to happen, sooner or later, and no one is exempt from this.

No one is going to remain ignorant of this knowledge.

[GraniteStateConservative]

Costner wanted Phil Gramm to beat Bill Clinton in 1996. Any support he wants to give to the cause is fine by me.

[rmlew]

Actually, a substantial number are Secular Jews rather than Believing Jews. They regard their Jewishness as a kind of non-demanding social club, like the Shriners or Freemasons, with the God of Moses as only a faint memory or allegorical reference.

True but incomplete. For them, Judaism equals social justice. Liberals support social justice. Thus Judaism is religious liberalism.

Secular Jews resent Israel because it is an historical reminder that Jews are called by a living God to be a chosen people.

No, they resent it because they wished to solve anti-Semitism by having a country. They wanted to have a secular country like anyone else. Instead they have a country, whose only logical base is a people, whose identity is defined by religion, and a country surrounded by hostile peoples.
The7y also hate Israel because they believe that Israel is the source of modern anti-Semitism.

They resent Christianity not because they perceive Christianity as anti-Semitic, but because Christianity has at its core the worship of the God of Moses through a Jewish messiah.

Huh? I don't know any Jew who holds this position. Christianphobic Jews believe that christianity is anti-semitic. (The replaccement theology discussion in following posts, doesn't help)

Into the category of Secular Jews I would place the New York Times and a lot of others in the liberal US news and entertainment media.
Howell Rains and Pinch Sulzburger are Christian.

Of course, there are Secular Jews who are conservative, as well, but in their case they have a certain nostalgia for the God of Moses -- though not outright belief.

There are also conservatives of Jewish descent whose political ideology is seperate from religion.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

The Democrats have had a historically long run as a united party.

Today's RAT party is a strange collection of single-issue special intrest groups cobbled together by a love for power and hatred for the GOP. Martha Burke and Jesse Jackson together at Augusta. Pro-war union members marching in NYC while their leadership trashes the President. The 2000 VP nominee getting boo'd by party activists because he happens to agree with the President on most national security issues. Ralph Nader blaming corporations for the ills of our capitalist nation. Six-figure trial lawyers attending the same conventions as dopey tree-sitters. Radical homosexuals booing Boy Scouts. The NAACP loves Al Sharpton but hates Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas.

It's both bizarre and pathetic.

[GodBlessRonaldReagan]

Ron Silver?!?!?!

This AM Bizarro World!

Seriously, always liked the guy as an actor and I welcome him to the forces of light!

[psyless]

I only caught a few lines from Silver's speech and am hoping someone can fill in the blanks.
Something to the effect of "...the decayed state of morality and patriotism.."
A link to a transcript or vid would be great.

[Scenic Sounds]

Unfortunately, his problems are probably not over. Before too long, someone may drag him onto one of those threads in which he will be forced to decide whether he's actually a libertarian, a "neo" or a "paleo."

No rest for the wicked.

[rmlew]

Joe Schem wrote:
" Secular Jews resent Israel because it is an historical reminder that Jews are called by a living God to be a chosen people."

Illbay responded
It's not so much "secular American Jews," but LEFTIST American Jews who are critical these days of Israel. And they are critical because they oppose the Israeli government, which is only moderately Left, not Extreme Left, like they want.

By most standards, the Israeli government is center-right. It does contain a secular party, Shinui. Shinui is for limited economic liberalization and a reduction of subsidies and welfare. On defense issues it is fairly centrist. The governing party is the conservative Likud Party (not as conservative as I like, but the same is true for the GOP)as well as conservative minority and nationalist religious groups.
It is certainly true that for its first 27 years, Israel was dominated by the left. However, it was always constrained by nationalist and religious elements.

And the modern, secular state of Israel, created by the United Nations--not the Hand of God--in 1948, was and has been led the entire time by SECULAR JEWS exactly like those you are criticizing right now.

1. The same could be true about the end of the Babylonian Exile, when the Persians let the Jews resettle Israel. However, it is hard to see the recreation of a Jewish state in Israel after 1881 years as anyhting but an act of God if you believe in God.
2. Secular Jews both suppoerted and opposed the recreation of Israel. The same is true for religious groups. However, with the exception of a few tiny sects, the only opposition to Israel today comes from those with the least ties to their heritage and religion.

There has never been a single attempt by any mainstream Jewish leadership in Israel to allege that they are "following God's calling to be a chosen people."

Really? Tell that to
the National Religious Party (Mafdal) 6MK
Shas 11MK
National Union 7MK
One in Five Members of the Kenesset comes from explicitly Zionist Religious Parties. That doesn't even count the large number of Religious Zionists in Likud and Labor-Meimad. (Meimad runs with Labor. It is a liberal Zionist Religious group)
This 25%+ of the Knesset has been part of every governing coalition.

The Jews were NOT EVER in and of themselves a "chosen people." Most fundy Christians, ignorant as they are of history and the scriptures, forget that God spoke NOT to the Jews, but to ISRAEL, which included TWELVE TRIBES not just one.

ou are confusing Judahites (those only of the tribe of Judah) and Jews, a term used to refer to all members of the faith. This includes descendants of the 12 Tribes plus converts who are considered tribeless. We don't even call ourselves "Jews" in a religious context, only political ones. The proper term is B'nel Yisrael or Children of Israel.

And they further forget that with the coming of the Messiah, and the atonement of Christ, ALL MANKIND may become part of the covenant people.

There is not a single, solitary shred of truth to this notion that "Israel" is a chosen people, or nation, or state, or whatever.
Thank you for giving a Christian perspective. I'll follow my scripture and you can follow whatever interpritation of yours that your choose.
Muslims consider themselves to be the "chosen" of God. A Muslim could say that Christians are part of know chosen group.
Jews believe that there is but a single God for all peoples. We recognize the righteous of all nations.
The idea of choseness is a harness and a blessing. We are to be a Priestly Nation.

In fact, by the time that "Jews" came to be, they had lost their connection with God through disobedience to those prophets that had been sent to call them to repentence.

Who are you talking about: the Southern Kingdom/Judah, the Jews God returned to Israel after the Babylonian Exile, or the people of Israel in the first century before the Common Era when the Romans mistakenly labeled the land "Iudea"?

The rest of your rant is rehashed and poorly explained Replacement Theory.

[rmlew]

You seem to think that only the Socialists found Israel. Thank you for buying leftist revision.
You manage to ignore the moderates, religious, religious right, and non-religious nationalists.

[chuckles]

Trust but Verify!

You will know them by their fruit.

[Redcloak]

A substantial number of the anti-war crowd are anti-Semitic...

A disturbing number are. Listen to them on NPR some time. You'll wonder if you haven't accidentally tuned into a Klan station!

[rmlew]

BTW, it is perfectly obvious that Jews are a very mixed group ethnically, due to several millenia of conversions and mixed marriages. So what possible meaning can a Chosen People by blood descent have anymore?

1. Actually all Jewish populations, with the exception of Ethiopian Jews and Crimean Karaylar, are highly correlated.
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1061/2_110/65014591/p1/article.jhtml
http://www.aish.com/societywork/sciencenature/Jewish_Genes.asp
2. So what if many Jews are descended from converts. King David and Jesus were both descended from Ruth the Moabite. With the exception of actual converts, all Jews are decended from the people who congregated at Sinai/Horeb to recieve the law.
Moreover, racial purity is an odd standard. I share only 1/4 of my genes with my recently deceased grandfather. Does that mean that I should have had no inheritance?

[rmlew]

It's because ISRAEL is affected by what goes on in Iraq. If this were any other part of the world, Silver would be trashing Bush.
He's a classic Jewish liberal.
True. However, people who break from the left on one issue tend to continue drifting as they are ostracized.

[goldstategop]

Wasn't he the guy who said Clinton's air force, is now ours?? Well even liberals can see the light or at least some of them apparently do!

[Restorer]

All I know is that most Jews I have spoken with have a very confused idea of exactly what the term "Jewish" means. It flip-flops back and forth from a religion tp a nation to an ethnic group, depending on which better suits their argument of the moment.

A lot of Jews don't seem to think of a convert as a "real Jew."

The obvious prominence of irrelisious and even anti-religious Jews makes it impossible, IMHO, for religion to be the primary determinant of "Jewishness" in today's world.

If adherence to a particular religion is the prime determinant of who is God's chosen people, it seems likely that the religion would be Christianity, which Chrtistians believe has replaced Judaism.