Posted on 04/08/2003 3:45:52 PM PDT by Dubya
LOUISVILLE, Ky. (BP)--The sovereignty of God as presented in the Book of Revelation should remind Christians that God is in control of all the events of history, including warfare, Scottish minister Eric Alexander noted in a two-sermon series at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.
Alexander, a Presbyterian minister, said Revelation 4-5 paint three pictures that should give believers assurance during uncertain times. The chapters unpack God's kingship, His guidance over the history of creation and the central act of history -- God's redemption of sinners in Jesus Christ, Alexander said.
"We are conscious that these are critical hours in which we live," he said at the Louisville, Ky., campus in mid-March. "We are aware of the question, 'Where is the hand controlling the events we are passing through?'
"The relevance of the Bible at such a time as this and the relevance of Revelation is that it takes us to this throne of God. It [Revelation] is not there to satisfy our curiosity, but to give us a perspective on the world in which we live and the whole of history, so that we are able to see it [history] from a different vantage point from the rest of the world."
The apostle John presents the throne as the central feature of his vision in Revelation 4, Alexander said. This is highly significant because the eternal kingship of God is evident by John's pointing out that the throne is constantly occupied.
John penned Revelation while suffering in exile on the island of Patmos, which Alexander described as "a kind of Alcatraz in the ancient world." Paul's audience -- the seven churches in Asia -- also were undergoing intense persecution. John shared his vision to encourage the churches and to remind them that God was still on the throne despite their suffering, he said.
Alexander recalled where he was when terrorists attacked America on Sept. 11, 2001 -- in the clubhouse at St. Andrews golf course in Scotland.
Alexander remembered how a fellow golfer reacted to the news after learning Alexander was a minister. The man's words echo the very thought that sometimes enters a believer's mind during seasons of suffering, he said.
"He said to me, 'I guess your God has gone for a holiday,'" Alexander said. "And that is the deep fear that lies even in the hearts of some trembling, faithful souls: 'Is God really on the throne?' And John clearly gives us the answer in the outset of his vision."
In Revelation 5, John's vision includes an angel holding a scroll. This scroll is the record of human destiny and divine purpose for the world, Alexander said. The scroll is both complete -- it contains no blank spaces -- and is sealed.
This points to the fact that, while every event in history is in God's hands, it is sealed from the sphere of human speculation or knowledge, Alexander said. It also shows that there is God-ordained purpose for every event in life and that all God's purposes in the world are a closed book to human beings.
"John weeps. It has made him deeply sad and the mystery of life is beginning to engulf him," he said.
Believers should note that John points to the climax of history in Revelation 5:6. The "Lamb standing, as if slain," is Christ, who is the key to history," Alexander said.
During times of war and suffering, Christians must look to the Lamb and take comfort in the fact that His purposes - even though mysterious from a human perspective - will not be thwarted, he said. This should lead Christians to worship God in awe and wonder, he added.
"That Lamb is the crucified, risen, exalted and now reigning Lord Jesus Christ," Alexander said. "He is the key to history, the key to life. Christ is the key to every mystery that life brings to us because He was slain and with His blood purchased a people for God.
"That is the central thing about the whole of history. It is the building of the church, which is the central element in history. When that work is done and when the church of Jesus Christ is complete, that is when God will bring down the curtain on the affairs of this sad world. May God help us that we may have that special view of the world which comes from dwelling near the throne."
I have posted scripture that clearly says God has no desire to see ANY man condemned...and that the Lord offers salvation freely to ALL men.
I am still waiting for any of you to offer an alternative interpretation of those scriptures to defend your claims that man has no free will.
The fact is you can't defend your flimsy non-Biblical arguments.
You truly seem like a nice person, but I don't think you are realizing the inherint dangers of thinking we are either chosen or not.
I just do not ascribe to the predestination view. I know I'm a sinner .. and that I must gaurd against evil every day. Be it irritation at another person, or some form of hatred. I am tempted to feel those feelings. I'm not perfect. Only God is, only Christ and the Holy Spirit are.
No offense.. but you keep egging on Jorge. I've known Jorge in this forum for a long long time. He or she, represents a loving Christian view. Non judgemental, and very loving.
I'm not saying you aren't a loving Christian. I'm just saying there comes a time to break away from a debate. To not be so judgemental.
As to the exact verse that mentions free will. I already posted it. If you really want me to, I'll go back through all my posts and find it. But I honestly do not have it in me to spend all night on the computer again.
Let me know if you cannot find it,..and I'll look for it tomorrow. K?
I'm afraid we must agree to disagree on this subject. Which btw,.. was actually about a Scottish Minister supporting the idea that Christains can support a just war.
Which is why I posted Dr. STanleys article too.
My eyes are crossing from all this reading.. so I have to go. Take care.
FRegards, Vets
Then why worry about all that Christ stuff. Let's just let everyone enter the Kingdom. The fact is, salvation is God's gift. He can give it to whomever he pleases. Again, using your rule, balance this of the blocks of scripture I have posted.
It's easy to balance these scriptures.
God gives salvation to whomever He pleases. And the NT is full of scriptures that tell us it pleases God to give salvation to all those who believe and accept Christ.
I don't see these two concepts as hard to reconcile.
Since we know the NT clearly proclaims the Gospel message is to offer salvation to ALL mankind.
If Christ offers salvation to ALL men..and yet knows it is impossible for some of them to accept it because God has determined they are going to hell no matter what...that would make the offer from Christ...a lie.
Personally I don't think the Lord can lie. Sorry.
Did I say God creates evil?
Yes.
You said;
"Doesn't sound like Pharaoh had a free will to me, God made him for this purpose."
According to your interpretation of these scriptures, God made Pharaoh a robot with no free will...programed by God to do evil...through no choice of his own.
And then God would punish Pharaoh for something which he had no control over..which according to your logic is really God's responsibility.
This is a blasphemous smear on the character of God.
Your comments reflect a common misinterpretation about what it means for a sovereign God to give mankind the gift of free will.
BTW, I am not a Calvinist. I agree with much that he wrot, but I am of course a Christian with a Reformed Theology view.
"Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-92) was England's best-known preacher for most of the second half of the nineteenth century. In 1854, just four years after his conversion, Spurgeon, then only 20, became pastor of London's famed New Park Street Church (formerly pastored by the famous Baptist theologian John Gill). The congregation quickly outgrew their building, moved to Exeter Hall, then to Surrey Music Hall. In these venues Spurgeon frequently preached to audiences numbering more than 10,000all in the days before electronic amplification. In 1861 the congregation moved permanently to the newly constructed Metropolitan Tabernacle."
One of the immutable attributes of God is His omnipotence. If God's will in anything is subservient to man or the will of man, God's will is, by extensition, not sovereign in that area. Accordingly, God is made, so to speak, less than omnipotent. Therefore, God would no longer be immutable. Real Bad theology Jorge.
You must reconcile God's holiness as well as His sovereignty and omnipotence. Howya gonna do it?
You responded:
This is easy.
God willingly allows man a degree of free will. This in no way compromises his omnipotence. How silly.
You also replied
I have posted scripture that clearly says God has no desire to see ANY man condemned...and that the Lord offers salvation freely to ALL men.
If you examine my original question and your responses, you have not answered my ORIGINAL question. Do not accuse me of not being able to defend my arguments until you answer my original query.
The fact is that your are at best an individual that believes in a theology known as Arminianism. Your theology position is contrary to mine. They are irreconcilable postions. If you want, we could take this discussion to the Religion forum.
Nope.
Your rantings are similar to those of the idiot Falwell and beyond discussion at this point.
You got a problem? Talk to God--- that is, if you have the guts!
I have. I did. I do.
Personally, I think it's mighty high-minded to think that we of our own free will strolled down the aisle and claimed our salvation. It's arrogant to think that we made the ultimate decision, we can pat ourselves on the back because we decided to follow Christ. How can you take credit for salvation that was given and not taken?
Well said! <><
Maybe to you, but I don't see how.
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